Lawyerist Podcast

Law firms spend enormous amounts of time and money winning new clients, then often overlook the relationships they have already built. In episode 636 of the Lawyerist Podcast, Stephanie Everett talks with EJ Stern and Katherine Wilson about how intentional client nurturing can lead to stronger relationships, repeat business, and more referrals.

EJ and Katherine explain why clients can quietly disappear when firms stop staying connected, why asking for feedback can strengthen rather than threaten a relationship, and how lawyers can move beyond being the person clients call with one legal problem to becoming a trusted advisor they call about everything else.

They also share practical ways to stay top of mind, from LinkedIn and personal check-ins to thoughtful gifts, memorable experiences, and small gestures that show you actually know the person behind the matter. As AI-generated communication becomes easier to produce, authentic human connection may become even more valuable.

If your firm is constantly focused on finding the next client, this conversation is a reminder that some of your best growth opportunities may already know, like, and trust you.

Listen to the previous episodes of our Client Retention, Referral Growth & Relationship Building.

#609: Improve Client Satisfaction Without More Work: Designing Smarter Legal Services, with Laura Hartnett Apple | Spotify | LTN

#608: Business Development for Lawyers: Building Real Relationships That Lead to Clients, with Megan Senese Apple | Spotify | LTN

#592: Client Care, Culture, and Character: A Framework for Great Leaders, with William O’Neal Apple | Spotify | LTN

#526: LinkedIn Mastery: Grow Your Law Firm NOW!, with Matthew Hunt Apple | Spotify | LTN

#424: How to Get Great Feedback from Clients, with Ashley Steckler Apple | Spotify | LTN

#347: How a Client Happiness Coordinator Increased My Firm Referrals & Reviews, with Ryan McKeen & Brittany Green Apple | Spotify | LTN

Links from the episode:

https://smith.ai/

8am Kaleidoscope: https://www.8am.com/events/kaleidoscope/

Fractional Law Firm CMO

Fractional Law Firm CMO on LinkedIn

EJ Stern on LinkedIn

Katherine Wilson on LinkedIn

Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.

Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.

Chapters / Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction

01:16 – Getting More From Conferences

03:02 – AI in Law Firms

06:39 – AI for Client Intake

08:15 – Intake Is a Sales Funnel

11:19 – Fixing Intake Leaks

13:22 – AI for Sales and Intake

14:53 – Meet EJ Stern & Katherine Wilson

15:36 – Why Client Retention Gets Overlooked

16:19 – Turning Clients Into Referrals

17:47 – Why Lawyers Avoid Feedback

21:01 – Why Client Experience Matters

21:54 – Becoming a Trusted Advisor

22:54 – How to Ask for Client Feedback

24:33 – Staying Top of Mind

25:27 – Building Client Loyalty

26:50 – Past Clients and Referral Sources

28:41 – Creative Client Gifts

32:22 – Human Connection in the Age of AI

34:50 – Invest in Existing Clients

35:21 – Building Long-Term Client Relationships

36:11 – Marketing Is Like the Gym

37:13 – LinkedIn and Staying Top of Mind

38:00 – Keep Repeating Your Message

38:21 – Closing Thoughts

Law firms know change is coming. Knowing what to do about it is harder. In this episode of the Lawyerist Podcast, Stephanie Everett talks with Debbie Foster about leading a law firm forward as technology, client expectations, and the business of law evolve.

Debbie explains why strategy often gets pushed aside for urgent client work and day-to-day demands. Together, they explore why firms struggle to move beyond “we’ve always done it this way,” how consensus can stall progress, and why great ideas mean little without execution and team buy-in.

They also examine how AI is raising the stakes for law firm leaders. Waiting for certainty is not a strategy. Stephanie and Debbie share practical ways to protect time for strategic thinking, challenge assumptions, build buy-in, and help teams adapt to change.

If your firm keeps talking about what needs to change but struggles to make it happen, this episode will help you move from ideas to action.

Listen to the previous episodes of our Law Firm Leadership Series.

#632: Law Firm Leadership: How to Lead Yourself Before Leading Your Team, with Debbie Foster & Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN

#633: Leading People in Law Firms: Building Trust, Developing Talent, and Holding Standards, with Debbie Foster & Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN

#634: Leading Law Firm Operations: Building Systems That Reduce the Daily Firefighting, with Debbie Foster & Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN

Links from the episode:

https://posh.com/lawyerist/

https://lawyerist.com/scorecard/

https://beanextlevelleader.com/



Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read Be a Next Level Leader yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.

Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.

Chapters / Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction

01:47 – The New Small Firm Scorecard™

03:23 – Making Law Firm Progress Easier to Measure

06:38 – AI & Virtual Receptionists

08:08 – AI vs. Automation: What’s the Difference?

09:03 – Using AI to Enhance the Client Experience

12:03 – AI for Sentiment Analysis & Quality Assurance

13:04 – Keeping Humans in Control of AI

14:56 – Leading Your Law Firm Forward

15:24 – Why Law Firm Strategy Gets Pushed Aside

16:54 – AI Is Changing the Game for Law Firms

18:35 – Law Firms Are Playing 3D Chess

19:30 – Why Strategic Thinking Needs Protected Time

20:40 – Looking Beyond the Day-to-Day

22:47 – Moving Past “We’ve Always Done It This Way”

24:02 – Why Leading Through Change Is So Hard

24:34 – Great Ideas Aren’t the Problem. Execution Is.

26:58 – The Business Case for Law Firm Strategy

28:39 – Creating Believers Inside Your Law Firm

31:09 – Building a Culture That Thinks Ahead

32:28 – Why Leaders Will Build the Next Era of Law Firms

Law firm leaders are often so busy putting out fires that they never get the chance to prevent the next one. In episode 634 of the Lawyerist Podcast, Stephanie Everett talks with Debbie Foster about leading operations, the third cornerstone from their book, Be a Next Level Leader (beanextlevelleader.com).

Debbie and Stephanie explore what it means to shift from being the “hero” who solves every problem to the architect who builds systems that help the firm run better. They break down how leaders can help teams prioritize urgent versus important work, clarify decision-making authority, and develop the judgment to make better decisions without constantly escalating them.

They also explain why healthy firms surface problems early instead of hiding mistakes, how solving root causes can prevent recurring operational headaches, and why some law firm meetings cost far more than the decisions being made inside them.

If your days feel like an endless cycle of interruptions, emergencies, and meetings about the same problems, this episode offers practical ways to build systems that create more clarity, accountability, and consistency across your firm.

This week's homework: head to beanextlevelleader.com/resources for a free meeting audit calculator to see what your recurring meetings are really costing your firm.

Listen to our previous episodes on Law Firm Leadership, Systems & Stronger Teams

#633: Leading People in Law Firms: Building Trust, Developing Talent, and Holding Standards, with Debbie Foster & Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN

#632: Law Firm Leadership: How to Lead Yourself Before Leading Your Team, with Debbie Foster & Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN

#631: Tune In Before You Jump In: A Better Way to Delegate, with Shawn Vanderhoven Apple | Spotify | LTN

#616: From Solo to CEO: Letting Go of Legal Work to Grow Your Firm, with Ellen Williamson Apple | Spotify | LTN

#615: How to Stop Being the Bottleneck and Build Stronger Teams, with Debbie Foster and Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN

#530: How to Design Meetings that Drive Results, with Matthew Homann Apple | Spotify | LTN

#522: The EOS Secret to Mastering Law Firm Challenges, with Mike Paton Apple | Spotify | LTN

Links from the episode: Kaleidoscope Conference, September 22-24 in Las Vegas: https://www.8am.com/events/kaleidoscope/ use code “Lawyerist26”

Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram!

For more on leading operations, check out Be a Next Level Leader at beanextlevelleader.com. Looking for help beyond the book?

Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.

Chapters / Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction

00:37 – Lawyerist Heads to Kaleidoscope in Las Vegas

03:23 – What Law Firms Can Learn from the Savannah Bananas

05:01 – Why Ridiculous Ideas Can Lead to Better Solutions

07:20 – The Third Cornerstone of Law Firm Leadership

07:44 – Leading Operations: Turning Ideas into Systems

09:29 – Stop Being the Hero and Start Being the Architect

11:01 – Why Nonbillable Work Can Be Your Most Valuable Work

11:35 – Building Better Systems One Problem at a Time

12:32 – Urgent vs. Important: Helping Your Team Prioritize

13:13 – Why Urgent Work Keeps Taking Over

15:07 – Teach Your Team to Think Without Rescuing Them

15:54 – Priorities, Trade-Offs & Better Judgment

16:45 – Who Actually Gets to Make the Decision?

19:18 – Why Law Firms Struggle with the Fear of Being Wrong

21:02 – Create a Culture Where Problems Surface Early

23:24 – Stop Fixing Symptoms and Find the Root Cause

25:10 – Audit Your Law Firm Meetings

25:50 – The $7,000 Meeting Problem

27:02 – Death by Meeting vs. Not Meeting Enough

28:17 – How to Run Meetings That Actually Accomplish Something

29:27 – Stop the Law Firm Rumor Mill

30:25 – This Week’s Leadership Homework

Most lawyers are taught how to practice law, not how to lead people. Then one day, they are handed a team and expected to figure it out. In episode 633 of the Lawyerist Podcast, Stephanie Everett talks with Debbie Foster about leading people, the second cornerstone from their book, Be a Next Level Leader.

Debbie and Stephanie break people's leadership into four essential responsibilities: building trust, developing others, communicating clearly, and holding standards. They explain why trust grows through small, human interactions, why leaders often overload their most dependable employees, and how delegation can become a tool for development instead of a way to clear your own plate.

They also explore why teams cannot meet expectations that were never clearly communicated, how positive and constructive feedback help people grow, and why “no news is good news” is not a leadership strategy.

If you want to build a team that can take greater ownership, perform at a higher level, and succeed without relying on one overburdened A player, this episode offers a practical place to start.

Listen to our previous episodes on Law Firm Leadership, Delegation, and Building Stronger Teams.

#632: Law Firm Leadership: How to Lead Yourself Before Leading Your Team, with Debbie Foster & Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN

#631: Tune In Before You Jump In: A Better Way to Delegate, with Shawn Vanderhoven Apple | Spotify | LTN

#616: From Solo to CEO: Letting Go of Legal Work to Grow Your Firm, with Ellen Williamson Apple | Spotify | LTN

#615: How to Stop Being the Bottleneck and Build Stronger Teams, with Debbie Foster and Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN



Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.

Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.

Chapters / Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction

00:21 – Track Your Firm’s Progress with the Small Firm Scorecard

03:17 – Leading People: The Second Leadership Cornerstone

04:25 – Trust, Development, Communication, and Standards

05:59 – Why Law Firms Do Not Teach People Management

07:42 – Building Trust Through Real Relationships

08:58 – Small Conversations That Strengthen Trust

10:54 – Delegating to Develop, Not Just to Offload Work

11:26 – The Overburdened A Player Problem

12:48 – Becoming a Multiplier for Your Team

13:31 – Match Delegation to Skill and Readiness

14:52 – Set Clear Expectations Before Asking for More

16:38 – Why Feedback Is a Leadership Skill

18:33 – “No News Is Good News” Does Not Work

19:08 – Learn How Your People Want to Be Recognized

19:53 – A Simple Framework for Better Feedback

21:14 – Holding Standards Without Being Harsh

22:15 – Closing Thoughts and What Comes Next

Leaders do not simply enter a room. They change it. In episode 632 of the Lawyerist Podcast, Stephanie Everett talks with Debbie Foster about leading self, the first cornerstone from their new book, Be a Next Level Leader.

Debbie explains why “leaders bring the weather” and how a leader’s emotions, attention, and energy can shape an entire meeting. Together, they explore what happens when leaders make promises they cannot realistically keep, become bottlenecks for their teams, or undermine decisions by delivering them as someone else’s instructions.

They also discuss why honoring commitments is essential to building trust, how to renegotiate a deadline without hiding behind busyness, and what it means to speak as a leader even when you disagree with a decision. Debbie and Stephanie share practical scripts, exercises, and shared language law firm teams can use to make better leadership habits part of everyday work.

If you want your team to trust your word, follow your direction, and feel secure when pressure rises, better leadership starts with understanding how you show up.

Listen to our previous episodes on Law Firm Leadership, Self-Awareness & Building Stronger Teams.

#627: Building Stronger Law Firm Teams Through Better Communication, with Zeina Baydoun Apple | Spotify | LTN

#615: How to Stop Being the Bottleneck and Build Stronger Teams, with Debbie Foster and Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN

#596: The Athlete’s Mindset for Lawyers, with Jess Sargus Apple | Spotify | LTN

#592: Client Care, Culture, and Character: A Framework for Great Leaders, with William O’Neal Apple | Spotify | LTN

#527: Casting Your Vision and Leading Your Firm, with Kevin DeShazo Apple | Spotify | LTN

Links from the episode:

https://beanextlevelleader.com/



Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.

Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.

Chapters / Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction

01:19 – Why Leadership Teams Need Shared Language

03:16 – Meet Debbie Foster

03:45 – Why Leadership Starts with Leading Self

04:13 – Leaders Bring the Weather

05:27 – Showing Up Fully Present

06:17 – How Broken Commitments Erode Trust

08:15 – When the Leader Becomes the Bottleneck

09:29 – Speak as a Leader, Not a Messenger

10:11 – Disagree, Commit & Support the Decision

12:02 – How Leaders Undermine Their Own Credibility

12:57 – Turning Leadership Theory into Practical Tools

14:31 – Scripts for Renegotiating Commitments & Receiving Feedback

16:10 – How the Book and Workbook Took Shape

17:21 – Shared Language Creates Stronger Leaders

19:26 – Leading When Responsibility Exceeds Authority

21:21 – How Do You Show Up Under Stress?

22:34 – Closing Thoughts