Sam Sanders is the former host of NPR’s It’s Been a Minute. He hosts Vulture’s Into It, which launched last week. “I don’t think I ever wanted a career where I was doing the same thing for 30 years. I think that, editorially, I had become someone who was really contemplating what kind of capital-j journalist I wanted to be, want to be, and I was questioning a lot of rules and the structure of what we think journalism is supposed to be, and I think I needed to be away from a legacy institution like NPR, at least for a spell, to work that out.” Show notes: @samsanders Sanders’ NPR archive 02:00 It’s Been a Minute (Sam Sanders • NPR • 2017) 02:00 NPR’s Politics Podcast (Tamara Keith and Scott Detrow • NPR • 2022) 28:00 "Eric André Talks ‘Bad Trip’ and Dangerous Pranks with Sam Sanders" (It's Been a Minute • April 2021) 29:00 "Joel Kim Booster Reflects on the 'Pride and Prejudice' of Fire Island's Party Scene" (Fresh Air • June 2022) 30:00 Psychosexual (Joel Kim Booster • Netflix • 2022) 32:00 "Maya Rudolph Once Struggled With Identity And Belonging. Now It's Her Inspiration" (It's Been a Minute • Aug 2021) 33:00 "Jennifer Lopez on Longevity and 'Second Act'" (It's Been a Minute • Dec 2018) 34:00 "A 1998 Jennifer Lopez Interview Is Going Viral for Her Comments About Other Actresses " (Kimberly Truong • InStyle • Sept 2019) 41:00 "The Business of Beyonc‪é" (Into It • July 2022) 48:00 Inside the Actors Studio (James Lipton • Bravo • 1994) 50:00 "Longform Podcast #491: Lulu Garcia-Navarro" 50:00 "Host Sam Sanders Calls Out NPR, Media Industry for Lack of Diversity: 'It Doesn't Sit Well'" (David Oliver • USA Today • March 2021) 50:00 "NPR Hosts' Departures Fuel Questions Over Race. The Full Story Is Complex" (David Folkenflik • NPR • Jan 2022) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael Pollan is a contributing writer for New York Times Magazine, the host of Netflix's How to Change Your Mind, and the author of nine books. The latest is This Is Your Mind On Plants. “I have found myself at two distinct points in my history having this transition from being the journalist, learning at the feet of these people, to becoming an advocate. And it’s an awkward role for a journalist, but at a certain point it would be kind of false to pretend you didn't have points of view, that there weren't directions in which you think the world should go. And the great thing about doing narrative nonfiction is that editors cut you a fair amount of slack at the end of a 10,000–word piece to say what you think.” Show notes: @michaelpollan michaelpollan.com Pollan on Longform Pollan on Longform Podcast Pollan’s New York Times archive Pollan’s Harper’s archive 01:00 How To Change Your Mind (Penguin Press • 2018) 01:00 How To Change Your Mind (Netflix • 2022) 06:00 "Channels of Communication Magazine" 09:00 "The Microdose Newsletter" 11:00 "The Future of Psychedelic-Assisted Psychotherapy" (Rick Doblin • TED • April 2019) 15:00 Second Nature (Grove Press; Reprint Edition • 2003) 17:00 "Caffeine" (Audible • 2019) 17:00 "Opium, Made Easy" (Harper’s • April 1997) 20:00 The Botany of Desire (Random House • 2002) 20:00 "Trip Treatment" (New Yorker • Feb 2015) 21:00 The Omnivore’s Dilemma (Penguin Press • 2007) 22:00 Fast Food Nation (Eric Schlosser • Penguin Random House • 2001) 24:00 A Life On Our Planet (David Attenborough • Netflix • 2020) 27:00 "The Morning After" (Robert Stone • Harper’s • Nov 1996) 27:00 "In Darkest Hollywood" (Stanley Elkin • Harper’s • Dec 1989) 28:00 "Shipping Out" (David Foster Wallace • Harper’s • Jan 1996) 28:00 "Gravy Boat: My Week on the High Seas with Paula Deen and Friends" (Caity Weaver • Gawker • Feb 2014) 28:00 "Ticket to the fair" (David Foster Wallace • Harper’s • July 1994) 35:00 Food Rules (Penguin Press • 2009) 42:00 "The Rubber Hand Illusion" (Horizon • BBC • Oct 2010) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Evan Ratliff, a co-host of the Longform Podcast, is host of the new podcast Persona: The French Deception. “One of these big scams is like a story. And in the story, what they're doing is they're manipulating you to be a participant in the story, and they're getting you so hooked that you will not just do anything they say, but you will invest yourself in bringing the story to its conclusion. And like, isn't that what you're doing if you're trying to get someone to listen to eight episodes, spend that much of their life listening to your voice? … The idea that every story has this person pulling the strings... I like revisiting that in everything that I do." Show notes: @ev_rat cazart.net Ratliff on Longform Longform Podcast #48: Evan Ratliff Longform Podcast Bonus Episode: Evan Ratliff (April 2016) Longform Podcast: Evan Ratliff, author of The Mastermind (March 2019) 1:00 Persona: The French Deception (Pineapple Street Studios, Wondery • May 2022) 2:00 Exit Scam (Treats Media • May 2021) 7:00 Thank You For Calling (Vito Films • March 2015) 9:00 The Mastermind: Drugs. Empire. Murder. Betrayal. (Random House • Jan 2019) 10:00 "The Fall of the Billionaire Gucci Master" (Bloomberg Businessweek • Jun 2021) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Andrea Elliott is an investigative reporter for The New York Times. Her recent book, Invisible Child: Poverty, Survival & Hope in An American City, won a Pulitzer Prize. ”I don’t see reporting as a one-way street. ... I think that people need to know as much as they can about you. And yes, there are boundaries ... but at the same time, the fact of the boundaries is something to talk about with the people you’re writing about. Isn’t it weird that this is my job to be reporting on your life when we can laugh and we can break bread together and I spend all these hours with you and you know about my kids? ... And at the same time, I’m also here to write a book. ... And those two facts I learned to just allow to coexist within me. But it was not easy.” Show notes: @andreafelliott andrea-elliott.com  Elliott on Longform 00:00 Invisible Child: Poverty, Survival & Hope in An American City (Random House • 2021) 01:00 "When Dasani Left Home" (New York Times Magazine • Sept 2021) 04:00 "Invisible Child: Girl in the Shadows, Dasani’s Homeless Life" (New York Times • Dec 2013) 17:00 "An Imam in America: Tending to Muslim Hearts and Islam's Future" (New York Times • Mar 2006) 17:00 "An Imam in America: To Lead the Faithful in a Faith Under Fire" (New York Times • Mar 2006) 17:00 "An Imam in America: A Muslim Leader in Brooklyn, Reconciling 2 Worlds" (New York Times • Mar 2006) 17:00 "An Imam in America: A Cleric’s Journey Leads to a Suburban Frontier" (New York Times • Jan 2007) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nicholson Baker is the author of 18 books of fiction and nonfiction. He has written for The New Yorker, Harper’s, and many other publications. His latest book is Baseless: My Search for Secrets in the Ruins of the Freedom of Information Act. "In the end, I don’t care how famous you get, how widely read you are during your lifetime. You’re going to be forgotten. And you’re going to have five or six fans in the end. It’s going to be your grandchildren or your great-grandchildren are going to say, Oh, yeah, he was big. … So I think the key is, write what you actually care about. Because in the end, you’re only doing this for yourself. … So maybe do your best stuff for yourself and for the three, four, five people who know in the coming century that you ever existed. That’s all you need to do." Show notes: @nicholsonbaker8 nicholsonbaker.com The Mezzanine (Grove Press • 1988) Baseless (Penguin Press • 2020) 10:00 Human Smoke (Simon & Schuster • 2009) 10:00 "Wrong Answer" (Harper's • Sept 2013) 11:00 Room Temperature (Grove Press • 2010) 11:00 U and I (Random House • 2000) 11:00 Vox (Publisher • 2000) 11:00 The Fermata (Author if different from Writer • Publisher • 2000) 12:00 "The Projector" (New Yorker • Mar 1994) 12:00 The Size of Thoughts (Vintage Contemporaries • 1996) 13:00 "The Author vs. the Library" (New Yorker • Oct 1996) 19:00 Double Fold (Vintage • 2002) 30:00 Lab 257 (Michael Carroll • Willam Morrow Paperbacks • 2005) 33:00 Longform Podcast #192: Seymour Hersh 33:00 The Killing of Osama Bin Laden (Seymour Hersh • Verso • 2017) 33:00 Longform Podcast #321: Nicholas Schmidle 33:00 "Getting Bin Laden" (Nicholas Schmidle • New Yorker • Aug 2011) 46:00 Baker's New Yorker archive Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices