The Dugout | a Black anarchist podcast

What can economics teach anarchists, organizers, and people trying to build a different world?
Jordan sits down with Brooke of Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness and Live Like the World Is Dying for a conversation on economics, anarchism, and building alternatives to capitalism. Brooke shares her journey from journalism student to economist, bookkeeper, and organizer while breaking down economic concepts in accessible terms. Together, they explore how economic systems shape our lives, why understanding them matters for social change, and what cooperative, participatory, and anarchist approaches to economics might look like in practice.
From central banking and inflation to co-ops, buying clubs, and collective ownership, this episode is an invitation to think critically about how we organize resources
Mentioned Media:
together or not at all: TangledWilderness.org/zines/together-or-not-at-all-digital

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In this episode, Fawaz and Dr. Mohamed Abdou continue their conversation on anarchism, authoritarianism, and the future of resistance in Sudan and beyond. Beginning with the question “Do we need anarchism?”, the discussion explores anarchism not as a rigid ideology or replacement religion, but as a living culture of freedom, mutual aid, and resistance to domination. Together, they examine how authoritarianism reproduces itself through the modern state, capitalism, propaganda, nationalism, and even within revolutionary movements themselves.
The episode dives into the limits of armed struggle in Sudan, the failures of nationalist and Marxist movements, and the dangers of revolutionary groups becoming authoritarian structures of their own. Fawaz reflects on the Sudanese revolution, the collapse of resistance committees, the rise of militias like the RSF, and why many armed movements ultimately become absorbed into the systems they claim to fight. The conversation also explores spirituality, Islamic anarchism, anti-colonial struggle, and the importance of building counter-propaganda and grassroots systems rooted in solidarity rather than hierarchy.
From the Zapatistas to Palestine, from the Makhnovists to Sudan’s local mutual aid networks, this episode asks what real liberation could look like in a world shaped by empire, war, and centralized power. Rather than offering easy answers, the conversation challenges listeners to think critically about revolution, culture, violence, and how communities can build alternatives beyond the state.

English Transcript: substack.com/pub/tdugout/p/eng-the-anarchist-group-in-sudan

CHAPTERS
00:00 Episode Intro and Links
01:22 Why We Need Anarchism
05:16 Belonging and Practice
06:31 Martyrdom and Organization
09:01 Islamic Anarchism and State Power
12:54 Counter Propaganda in Revolution
17:00 Goals of Anarchism
18:22 Armed Struggle in Sudan
20:48 Janjaweed and Brutalization
23:25 Global Struggles and Identity
25:57 Closing Thanks and Farewell

Stay connected with The Dugout! Follow us for updates, exclusive content, and more:
🔗OUR WEBSITE: https://www.thedugoutpodcast.com/
🔗 ⁠Instagram⁠: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/dugoutpodcast/⁠
🔗 ⁠Substack⁠: ⁠https://tdugout.substack.com/⁠
 🔗⁠YouTube⁠: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@thedugoutpod⁠
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🔗 Watch Prince Shakur  on Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMMgrSHWLLU4U_FnJ1u10Ug

In this episode, Sudanese anarchist organizer Fawaz joins Dr. Mohamed Abdou for a wide-ranging conversation on the war in Sudan, authoritarianism, colonialism, and the struggle for liberation beyond the state. Together, they unpack the roots of the conflict between the Sudanese army and the RSF, tracing how colonial borders, militarized tribal divisions, resource extraction, and regional powers have shaped decades of violence and displacement. The discussion explores how authoritarian systems manufacture chaos in order to sustain control, while ordinary people are left to survive genocide, war economies, and social fragmentation.
The episode also examines the relationship between spirituality, anarchism, and resistance, questioning how religion, nationalism, and identity are weaponized by both colonial and post-colonial states. Fawaz and Dr. Abdou reflect on the construction of violence, the manipulation of children and communities through fear, and the failures of both capitalist and authoritarian leftist projects across the world. At the same time, they highlight traditions of mutual aid, self-organization, and local survival networks already emerging in Sudan through community-run schools, hospitals, and grassroots support systems.
Rather than offering simple answers, this conversation challenges dominant narratives around “stability,” international law, and liberation politics, while arguing for a “third line” independent of both military factions and foreign powers. From Darfur to Gaza, from the Arab Spring to anarchist organizing in Sudan, this episode is a deep discussion on resistance, dignity, pluralism, and what it means to build genuinely liberatory movements in the shadow of empire.
TRANSCRIPT: https://tdugout.substack.com/p/eng-the-anarchist-group-in-sudan
CHAPTERS
00:00 Show Intro And Links
00:41 Meet Kandake
01:34 Episode Setup Third Line
02:42 Sudan War Overview
04:17 Darfur Roots And RSF
06:02 Chaos Economy And Genocide
07:47 Modern State And Colonialism
11:02 Authoritarianism And Spirituality
15:10 Children Violence And Identity
19:11 Pluralism Against Centralization
22:45 Movement Status And Support
24:06 Anarchist Vision Third Line
26:58 Closing Call For Coalition

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Stay connected with The Dugout! Follow us for updates, exclusive content, and more:
🔗OUR WEBSITE: https://www.thedugoutpodcast.com/
🔗 ⁠Instagram⁠: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/dugoutpodcast/⁠
🔗 ⁠Substack⁠: ⁠https://tdugout.substack.com/⁠
🔗⁠YouTube⁠: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@thedugoutpod⁠
🔗 ⁠Patreon⁠: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/TheDugoutPod⁠
🔗 ⁠OUR LINKS⁠: ⁠https://bio.site/thedugoutpodcast⁠
🔗 Watch Prince Shakur on Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMMgrSHWLLU4U_FnJ1u10Ug

Before the city of Philadelphia dropped a bomb on a Black neighborhood, MOVE spent over a decade building one of the most uncompromising radical organizations in American history. Founded by John Africa in the early 1970s, MOVE combined Black liberation politics with a sweeping critique of modern civilization — technology, education, government, and "the system" itself. In this episode, we trace MOVE's arc from their communal house in Powelton Village to the 1978 standoff that sent nine members to prison, to the catastrophic 1985 bombing that killed 11 people and burned down 61 homes. Along the way, we wrestle with hard questions: What made MOVE so compelling — and so controversial? What does the state's response tell us about the limits of Black radical organizing? And what do we do with organizations that cause harm while also facing tremendous repression?
Learn more on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/posts/move-through-157559223
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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro & How did you first learn about MOVE?
11:17 MOVE's origins: John Africa, *The Guidelines*, and life in Powelton Village
23:20 The 1978 Powelton Village standoff, the MOVE 9, and the road to the 1985 bombing
29:08 The complicated history: internal conflict, harm allegations, and neighbor relations
29:35 MOVE's beliefs, the GUIDELINES, and how they organized day-to-day
37:15 Discussion: Is being disruptive or playing the "vanguard" actually useful in revolutionary movements?
40:20 Hierarchy, accountability, and how power worked (and didn't) inside MOVE
46:45 Allegations of harm within MOVE and Mike Africa Jr.'s role in the organization's legacy today
51:30 When is Black separatism a useful political strategy?
01:00:00 Outro

Before the city of Philadelphia dropped a bomb on a Black neighborhood, MOVE spent over a decade building one of the most uncompromising radical organizations in American history. Founded by John Africa in the early 1970s, MOVE combined Black liberation politics with a sweeping critique of modern civilization — technology, education, government, and "the system" itself. In this episode, we trace MOVE's arc from their communal house in Powelton Village to the 1978 standoff that sent nine members to prison, to the catastrophic 1985 bombing that killed 11 people and burned down 61 homes. Along the way, we wrestle with hard questions: What made MOVE so compelling and so controversial? What does the state's response tell us about the limits of Black radical organizing? And what do we do with organizations that cause harm while also facing tremendous repression?
Learn more on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/posts/157559223
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Timestamps:
00:00 — Intro & How did you first learn about MOVE?
11:17 — MOVE's origins: John Africa, *The Guidelines*, and life in Powelton Village
23:20— The 1978 Powelton Village standoff, the MOVE 9, and the road to the 1985 bombing
29:08 — The complicated history: internal conflict, harm allegations, and neighbor relations
29:35 — MOVE's beliefs, the GUIDELINES, and how they organized day-to-day
37:15 — Discussion: Is being disruptive or playing the "vanguard" actually useful in revolutionary movements?
40:20 — Hierarchy, accountability, and how power worked (and didn't) inside MOVE
46:45 — Allegations of harm within MOVE and Mike Africa Jr.'s role in the organization's legacy today
51:30 — When is Black separatism a useful political strategy?
01:00:00 — Outro
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Documentaries
Let the Fire Burn (2013) — Archival documentary reconstructing the events leading to the 1985 bombing
40 Years a Prisoner (2020) — Follows Mike Africa Jr.'s fight to free his parents; streaming on Max
Books
On a Move: Philadelphia's Notorious Bombing and a Native Son's Lifelong Battle for Justice — Mike Africa Jr. (2024)