Psychedelic Medicine Podcast with Dr. Lynn Marie Morski

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Dori Lewis, MA, MEd, LPC-S returns to discuss the differences between psilocybin and ketamine. Dori is the Clinical Director of Elemental Psychedelics and Owner/Operator of Reflective Healing in Fort Collins Colorado. As a clinician, she blends transpersonal psychology, depth work, and psychedelic-assisted therapy within a model that centers the therapeutic relationship. To date, she has stewarded over 100 ketamine therapy sessions, more than 200 mushroom sessions, and numerous group ceremonies.
In this conversation, Dori explores how clinicians and facilitators can thoughtfully decide when ketamine or psilocybin may be the more appropriate therapeutic option, emphasizing that the two medicines are complementary rather than competing approaches. She explains how factors such as current medications, trauma history, substance use, prior experience with altered states, therapeutic readiness, and available social support all shape this decision. Throughout the discussion, Dori argues that ketamine often serves as an accessible and effective introduction to psychedelic-assisted therapy, while psilocybin may be especially valuable for addressing grief, attachment and religious trauma, and deeper existential questions when paired with sufficient preparation, integration, and a strong therapeutic relationship.
 
In this episode, you'll hear:
Why ketamine is often recommended before psilocybin for people new to psychedelic therapy
How SSRIs and other medications influence the choice between ketamine and psilocybin
What personal history, symptoms, and therapeutic readiness clinicians should evaluate before recommending either medicine
Which conditions and life experiences may be particularly well-suited for psilocybin-assisted therapy, including grief, attachment trauma, and existential distress
How cannabis use, substance use disorders, and suicidal ideation can affect treatment planning
Why community support, integration resources, and a trusting relationship with a facilitator are critical for successful psychedelic experiences
The importance of cultivating self-awareness before engaging in psychedelic-assisted therapy
 
Quotes:
"How do we help somebody who is on these [SSRI] medications, has been on them for a really long time and is actually doing well with them? The answer is not to get someone to stop taking their meds just to have a psilocybin experience. That's actually really reckless, in my opinion. What I would say is, why don't we start with ketamine and see how that affects you." [7:59]
"There's another important piece here: What [does the patient] want? If this person says, 'Dori, I really don't want to do ketamine. I want to work with a plant medicine. That's what I'm feeling really called to.' I might say, 'okay, then let's explore that.' But if they're open [to either], I might say, 'why don't we start with [ketamine]?'" [15:50]
"There are very few cases that I would say, 'don't start with ketamine' unless somebody says 'I've already done ketamine' … or they say 'I don't want to do ketamine' but in most cases I'm going to recommend just start with ketamine" [23:05]
 
Links:
Dori on LinkedIn 
Elemental Psychedelics website
Elemental Psychedelics on LinkedIn
Reflective Healing website
Reflective Healing on LinkedIn
Reflective Healing on Instagram
Fireside Project website
Previous episode: Common Psilocybin Myths & Misconceptions with Dori Lewis, LPC
Previous episode: How Psychedelics & Pharmaceuticals Can Both Aid Healing with Erica Zelfand, ND
Psychedelic Medicine Association
Porangui

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Katie Fassbinder, MD joins to explore how to choose the right ketamine clinic. Dr. Fassbinder is the Faculty Medical Lead for ketamine-assisted psychotherapy training at Elemental Psychedelics and a practicing psychiatrist based in Wisconsin with over 20 years of experience. She also directs mental health and KAP programming at Promega and has worked extensively in public-sector mental health systems.
In this conversation, Dr. Fassbinder explores how patients can make informed decisions when choosing a ketamine clinic, emphasizing that safety, therapeutic support, and personal fit should guide the process. She discusses the differences between medical ketamine treatment and ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, highlighting how factors such as trauma history, treatment goals, medical complexity, and access to integration support can influence the most appropriate model of care. The conversation also examines the strengths and limitations of various routes of administration, including IV, intramuscular, sublingual, and at-home ketamine programs. Throughout, Dr. Fassbinder stresses the importance of preparation, integration, set and setting, and finding a treatment environment that feels safe and supportive, noting that ketamine's benefits are often maximized when paired with meaningful therapeutic relationships and ongoing psychological support.
 
In this episode, you'll hear:
Key factors to consider when evaluating the safety of a ketamine clinic
How medical and psychological needs influence the type of ketamine treatment that may be most appropriate
The differences between ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and more medically oriented ketamine treatment models
How IV, intramuscular, sublingual, and at-home ketamine approaches compare
Why set, setting, preparation, and integration are critical components of successful treatment
Who may be a good candidate for at-home ketamine programs and what risks to consider
The distinction between psycholytic and psychedelic ketamine dosing and how each supports different therapeutic goals
Resources and community-based options for psychedelic integration when ongoing therapy is not available
 
Quotes:
"[Ketamine] is one of those medicines that's very much a shape shifting medicine and it can meet people for different types of concerns or goals at different levels and different routes. So it's so good we have such a breadth of options—and very complicated if you're a patient trying to figure out where to begin."  [7:55]
"Those challenging psychedelic experiences, when well integrated, typically provide even more benefit for the person than the sort of bliss journeys that we all hope everybody gets to have, you know? So having a challenging journey, if well supported and integrated, is also a gift that's very potent for somebody that's really ready to do that work." [21:52]
"Ego dissolution or that sort of loss of concept of self can be extremely liberating for some people. For others, coming back from that can be very discombobulating and even traumatic. So this really comes down to patient selection and helping people make a safe choice for what they're looking to do in their recovery and also what they're bringing in as risk factors for helping choose that safe dose range." [31:15] 
"While we don't have clarity about cognitive impacts of ketamine in the long run, it seems like when done therapeutically in pulses it's pro-cognitive. … But when done daily, what we've seen in recreational ketamine use—or misuse—is that it does have some cognitive impairment that's perhaps difficult to reverse." [42:58]
"The dose of ketamine has so much to do with the preparation of your system more than the number of milligrams. … If you've done the at home course and you're not getting the sustained benefit or you're not journeying, it might be that that's a cue that you need more support for your actual sessions." [45:01]
"Psychedelics and ketamine included, create a nonspecific amplification of everything. Everything feels bigger. And part of meeting with the ketamine provider is for them to really assess: Is this a good time in your life? Do you have the outside support, the inner resourcing to do this work safely?" [47:09]
 
Links:
Elemental Psychedelics website
Elemental Psychedelics on LinkedIn
Promega website
Healing Maps website
Fireside Project website
ACER Integration website
Journey Clinical website
Usona Institute website
"Psilocybin vs. Ketamine Training: Which is Right For Your Practice?" blog by Shannon Hughes and Dori Lewis
Previous episode: Fireside Project: The World's First Psychedelic Hotline with Joshua White and Hanifa Nayo Washington
Psychedelic Medicine Association
Porangui

In the 200th episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Ismail Lourido Ali, JD joins to discuss the future of psychedelic medicine. Ismail serves as MAPS Co-Executive Director and has been actively participating in the drug policy reform movement for over a decade, informed by half a lifetime of diverse personal experience with psychedelics and other substances.
In this conversation, Ismail explores the rapidly evolving landscape of psychedelic medicine, reflecting on the field's major milestones, challenges, and future possibilities. He discusses how public perception has shifted over the past decade, the role of state-level psychedelic reforms, and the tensions created by commercialization, overhype, and competing regulatory models. Much of the discussion focuses on the recent federal executive order related to psychedelic research and drug development, including what it may mean for FDA approval timelines, right-to-try access, rescheduling, and public health standards. Throughout, Ismail emphasizes that psychedelics are not a "silver bullet," but tools that require strong systems of care, thoughtful policy, and community support to be integrated responsibly into healthcare and society.
 
In this episode, you'll hear:
How public attitudes toward psychedelics have shifted over the past decade
Major milestones that expanded psychedelic policy reform beyond federal drug approval
The promises and pitfalls of increased visibility, commercialization, and hype in the psychedelic field
What the recent federal executive order on psychedelics actually does and does not do
An explanation of right-to-try laws, FDA approval pathways, and the complexities of rescheduling psychedelic medicines
Why maintaining rigorous evidentiary standards is essential for the long-term credibility of psychedelic medicine
MAPS' vision for the future of psychedelic access, including regulated adult use, professional education, and community safety infrastructure
How psychedelic policy reform could evolve to include broader systems of mental health care, crisis response, and social healing
 
Quotes:
"[Federal funding for psychedelic research] will only be so effective unless there is a massive reinvestment in mental health, harm reduction, and social services that actually ground—and one could say integrate—this medicine into like the continuum of care and the fabric of community that people are actually in." [25:07]
"Even though those of us in the psychedelic advocacy field do want to see drugs like MDMA and others be approved by the FDA for medical use in these controlled clinical settings… At the same time, we don't want medical access to be accelerated so much that it's at the expense of public health or consumer protection or an evidentiary standard that other drugs are being held to." [37:59]
"Medical professionals are not just prescribing things because they're approved. Many of them want to look at the evidence themselves. They want to look at the clinical trials. They want to understand 'is this the right choice for my patient?' But you can only know if [psychedelics] are being held to a comparable standard." [39:31]
"What's MAPS' vision for ten years from now or 40 years from now for that matter? I like to think of it as lots of on ramps and lots of off ramps. It's that people who are seeking access to psychedelics for any beneficial purpose—for their own treatment or healing, for their own spiritual growth, for their personal development, for their for improving of their relationships with their loved ones or with nature or with spirituality, whatever that cosmology is that they hold—that they have safe, responsible methods of doing so." [44:47]
 
Links:
Ismail on Instagram
Psychedelic Medicine Association
Porangui

In the 200th episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Ismail Lourido Ali, JD joins to discuss the future of psychedelic medicine. Ismail serves as MAPS Co-Executive Director and has been actively participating in the drug policy reform movement for over a decade, informed by half a lifetime of diverse personal experience with psychedelics and other substances.
In this conversation, Ismail explores the rapidly evolving landscape of psychedelic medicine, reflecting on the field's major milestones, challenges, and future possibilities. He discusses how public perception has shifted over the past decade, the role of state-level psychedelic reforms, and the tensions created by commercialization, overhype, and competing regulatory models. Much of the discussion focuses on the recent federal executive order related to psychedelic research and drug development, including what it may mean for FDA approval timelines, right-to-try access, rescheduling, and public health standards. Throughout, Ismail emphasizes that psychedelics are not a "silver bullet," but tools that require strong systems of care, thoughtful policy, and community support to be integrated responsibly into healthcare and society.
 
In this episode, you'll hear:
How public attitudes toward psychedelics have shifted over the past decade
Major milestones that expanded psychedelic policy reform beyond federal drug approval
The promises and pitfalls of increased visibility, commercialization, and hype in the psychedelic field
What the recent federal executive order on psychedelics actually does and does not do
An explanation of right-to-try laws, FDA approval pathways, and the complexities of rescheduling psychedelic medicines
Why maintaining rigorous evidentiary standards is essential for the long-term credibility of psychedelic medicine
MAPS' vision for the future of psychedelic access, including regulated adult use, professional education, and community safety infrastructure
How psychedelic policy reform could evolve to include broader systems of mental health care, crisis response, and social healing
 
Quotes:
"[Federal funding for psychedelic research] will only be so effective unless there is a massive reinvestment in mental health, harm reduction, and social services that actually ground—and one could say integrate—this medicine into like the continuum of care and the fabric of community that people are actually in." [25:07]
"Even though those of us in the psychedelic advocacy field do want to see drugs like MDMA and others be approved by the FDA for medical use in these controlled clinical settings… At the same time, we don't want medical access to be accelerated so much that it's at the expense of public health or consumer protection or an evidentiary standard that other drugs are being held to." [37:59]
"Medical professionals are not just prescribing things because they're approved. Many of them want to look at the evidence themselves. They want to look at the clinical trials. They want to understand 'is this the right choice for my patient?' But you can only know if [psychedelics] are being held to a comparable standard." [39:31]
"What's MAPS' vision for ten years from now or 40 years from now for that matter? I like to think of it as lots of on ramps and lots of off ramps. It's that people who are seeking access to psychedelics for any beneficial purpose—for their own treatment or healing, for their own spiritual growth, for their personal development, for their for improving of their relationships with their loved ones or with nature or with spirituality, whatever that cosmology is that they hold—that they have safe, responsible methods of doing so." [44:47]
 
Links:
Ismail on Instagram
Psychedelic Medicine Association
Porangui

In the 200th episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Ismail Lourido Ali, JD joins to discuss the future of psychedelic medicine. Ismail serves as MAPS Co-Executive Director and has been actively participating in the drug policy reform movement for over a decade, informed by half a lifetime of diverse personal experience with psychedelics and other substances.
In this conversation, Ismail explores the rapidly evolving landscape of psychedelic medicine, reflecting on the field's major milestones, challenges, and future possibilities. He discusses how public perception has shifted over the past decade, the role of state-level psychedelic reforms, and the tensions created by commercialization, overhype, and competing regulatory models. Much of the discussion focuses on the recent federal executive order related to psychedelic research and drug development, including what it may mean for FDA approval timelines, right-to-try access, rescheduling, and public health standards. Throughout, Ismail emphasizes that psychedelics are not a "silver bullet," but tools that require strong systems of care, thoughtful policy, and community support to be integrated responsibly into healthcare and society.
 
In this episode, you'll hear:
How public attitudes toward psychedelics have shifted over the past decade
Major milestones that expanded psychedelic policy reform beyond federal drug approval
The promises and pitfalls of increased visibility, commercialization, and hype in the psychedelic field
What the recent federal executive order on psychedelics actually does and does not do
An explanation of right-to-try laws, FDA approval pathways, and the complexities of rescheduling psychedelic medicines
Why maintaining rigorous evidentiary standards is essential for the long-term credibility of psychedelic medicine
MAPS' vision for the future of psychedelic access, including regulated adult use, professional education, and community safety infrastructure
How psychedelic policy reform could evolve to include broader systems of mental health care, crisis response, and social healing
 
Quotes:
"[Federal funding for psychedelic research] will only be so effective unless there is a massive reinvestment in mental health, harm reduction, and social services that actually ground—and one could say integrate—this medicine into like the continuum of care and the fabric of community that people are actually in." [25:07]
"Even though those of us in the psychedelic advocacy field do want to see drugs like MDMA and others be approved by the FDA for medical use in these controlled clinical settings… At the same time, we don't want medical access to be accelerated so much that it's at the expense of public health or consumer protection or an evidentiary standard that other drugs are being held to." [37:59]
"Medical professionals are not just prescribing things because they're approved. Many of them want to look at the evidence themselves. They want to look at the clinical trials. They want to understand 'is this the right choice for my patient?' But you can only know if [psychedelics] are being held to a comparable standard." [39:31]
"What's MAPS' vision for ten years from now or 40 years from now for that matter? I like to think of it as lots of on ramps and lots of off ramps. It's that people who are seeking access to psychedelics for any beneficial purpose—for their own treatment or healing, for their own spiritual growth, for their personal development, for their for improving of their relationships with their loved ones or with nature or with spirituality, whatever that cosmology is that they hold—that they have safe, responsible methods of doing so." [44:47]
 
Links:
Ismail on Instagram
Psychedelic Medicine Association
Porangui