Nomad Podcast

What is spirituality actually for?
Public theologian, author and activist Brian McLaren returns to Nomad to explore that question through his new novel The Great Rift. We talk about ritual, belonging and the power — and danger — of trying to engineer spiritual outcomes. Along the way we ask whether spiritual practices need God, what happens when we borrow rituals from different traditions, how communities hold disagreement, and whether Christianity needs to make more peace with mortality.
Afterwards, Nomad hosts Tim and Nick reflect on what actually makes spirituality spiritual, the pull of ritual after deconstruction, the value of staying in relationship with a tradition that still has rough edges, and Brian’s striking observation that life keeps making us beginners.
Interview starts at 12m 40s
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Nomad is an independent, ad-free podcast funded by its listeners. If these conversations matter to you, please consider supporting us on Patreon.

For generations, the natural world has been somewhere we go for refuge: to quiet the noise, regain perspective and feel held by something larger than ourselves. But what happens when rising heat, wildfire smoke and disappearing wildlife make that refuge itself feel less safe?
Professor of philosophy Roger Gottlieb, author of Nature Spirituality and Environmental Crisis, explores ecological grief, the loss of certainty, and what spirituality might look like without a guaranteed happy ending. Can gratitude survive without certainty? Do we need hope, or courage?
Afterwards, Tim and Joy reflect on hope, small acts of care, and whether “It’s enough that it ever was” lands differently across generations.
Interview starts at 11m 12s
Books, quotes & links from this episode →
Nomad is an independent, ad-free podcast funded by its listeners. If these conversations matter to you, please consider supporting us on Patreon.

Wellness culture promises us healthier bodies, calmer minds and longer lives. But what if that still isn’t enough?
In this conversation, Beyond Wellness author and religious ethicist Liz Bucar explores what gets lost when spiritual practices are detached from the traditions, communities and worldviews that gave them meaning. We discuss the difference between wellness and genuine flourishing, why religion may have more to offer than belief alone, and whether we can responsibly borrow from traditions without ever really belonging to them. Along the way, we wrestle with authority, community, spiritual seeking, and what might be lost when religion becomes something we draw from without ever calling it home.
After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim and Hannah reflect on what happens when spiritual practices are taken out of the communities that formed them — and whether sometimes the opposite can also be true. Drawing on their own evangelical backgrounds, they explore Sabbath, spiritual formation, cultural appropriation and the question of what kind of people our practices are actually shaping us into.
Books, quotes, links →
The creation of Nomad’s thoughtful, ad-free content is entirely funded by our equally thoughtful and wonderful listeners. By supporting us, you gain access to Nomad’s online spaces—like the Beloved Listener Lounge, Enneagram Lounge, and Book Club—as well as bonus episodes such as Nomad Contemplations, Homegrown Conversations, and Nomad Revisited.
If you’d like to join our lovely community of supporters, head over to our Patreon page. You might even be rewarded with a Nomad pen or our coveted Beloved Listener mug!
If a monthly commitment isn’t possible right now, a one-off donation is always deeply appreciated—you can do that here.
Looking to connect with others nearby? Check out the Listener Map or join our Nomad Gathering Facebook group.
And if you're up for sharing your own story, we regularly post reflections from listeners on our blog—all with the hope of fostering deeper understanding, connection and supportive relationships. If you'd like to share your story on the blog, contact us for more information here.

For many of us, faith was handed to us as certainty: right beliefs, right answers, and a God who could be clearly defined, defended and explained. But what happens when certainty begins to fall away? In this conversation, Carmen Acevedo Butcher returns to Nomad to explore The Cloud of Unknowing, the anonymous medieval text that insists God “can be loved but not thought.”
Together we ask what it might mean to find a firmer foundation in mystery than in control. Carmen reflects on contemplation as a way of knowing love, befriending our restless minds, loosening our grip on language, and learning to live with greater kindness, humility and courage in an anxious age. Along the way, she helps us see that unknowing need not be a failure of faith, but perhaps one of love’s deepest invitations.
After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim and Anna wonder what it means to stand on the “firm foundation of mystery” rather than certainty, and why that can feel both unsettling and deeply nourishing. They also explore Lectio Divina as a practice of looking again — at scripture, poetry, relationships, politics, and the parts of reality we’re tempted to skim past.
Interview starts at 14m 40s
Books, quotes, links →
The creation of Nomad’s thoughtful, ad-free content is entirely funded by our equally thoughtful and wonderful listeners. By supporting us, you gain access to Nomad’s online spaces—like the Beloved Listener Lounge, Enneagram Lounge, and Book Club—as well as bonus episodes such as Nomad Contemplations, Homegrown Conversations, and Nomad Revisited.
If you’d like to join our lovely community of supporters, head over to our Patreon page. You might even be rewarded with a Nomad pen or our coveted Beloved Listener mug!
If a monthly commitment isn’t possible right now, a one-off donation is always deeply appreciated—you can do that here.
Looking to connect with others nearby? Check out the Listener Map or join our Nomad Gathering Facebook group.
And if you're up for sharing your own story, we regularly post reflections from listeners on our blog—all with the hope of fostering deeper understanding, connection and supportive relationships. If you'd like to share your story on the blog, contact us for more information here.

Pádraig Ó Tuama returns to Nomad for a conversation about the stories we inherit, the desires we’re taught to mistrust, and what happens when religious language gets tangled up with shame. We talk about scripture, poetry, anger, masculinity, friendship and the strange ways God can remain present even after religion has caused harm.
Along the way, Pádraig reflects on exorcisms and reparative therapy, the body’s capacity to know before the mind catches up, and why anger can become a creative energy rather than something to fear. We also explore what it means to become “almost new” — not through a neat story of healing, but through friendship, attention, prayer, birds, and the slow work of learning how to live differently.
After the interview, Nomad hosts Tim and Anna pick up some of the threads Pádraig left dangling: what do we do with anger once it stops being something to fear, why can faith remain strangely compelling even after it has caused harm, and what might our images of God reveal about us?
Interview starts at 12m 22s
Books, quotes, links →
The creation of Nomad’s thoughtful, ad-free content is entirely funded by our equally thoughtful and wonderful listeners. By supporting us, you gain access to Nomad’s online spaces—like the Beloved Listener Lounge, Enneagram Lounge, and Book Club—as well as bonus episodes such as Nomad Contemplations, Homegrown Conversations, and Nomad Revisited.
If you’d like to join our lovely community of supporters, head over to our Patreon page. You might even be rewarded with a Nomad pen or our coveted Beloved Listener mug!
If a monthly commitment isn’t possible right now, a one-off donation is always deeply appreciated—you can do that here.
Looking to connect with others nearby? Check out the Listener Map or join our Nomad Gathering Facebook group.
And if you're up for sharing your own story, we regularly post reflections from listeners on our blog—all with the hope of fostering deeper understanding, connection and supportive relationships. If you'd like to share your story on the blog, contact us for more information here.