Distributed.

Antony Marcano is the founder of RiverGlide and an engineering leader known for building teams that reach the Elite tier of the DORA metric for software delivery performance. In this episode of Distributed, host Jack Hannah talks with Antony about what distinguishes those teams and how AI is reshaping software delivery.
Antony explains why AI-augmented coding often amplifies existing team dynamics, accelerating work upstream of bottlenecks and sometimes harming end-to-end performance. He discusses why humans must still maintain codebases, how overreliance on AI can reduce collaboration, and why leaders should measure delivery performance before adopting tools under top-down pressure.
They also explore what return-to-office mandates often miss about remote collaboration, how elite remote-first teams operate, and why DORA remains a useful starting point for understanding performance in the AI era.
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Where to find Antony Marcano:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonymarcano 
• Website: https://antonymarcano.com 
• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/antonymarcano.bsky.social
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Where to find Jack Hannah:  
• LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-hannah/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tuple.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:07) The four DORA metrics
(03:08) What elite status means
(08:50) What excites Antony about AI
(12:09) What concerns Antony about AI
(15:56) Removing delivery bottlenecks
(18:49) AI’s impact on collaboration
(22:02) Risks of relying entirely on AI code
(27:11) Why collaboration matters in software teams 
(31:19) Navigating top-down pressure to adopt AI
(36:45) Why DORA is a good starting point
(39:04) Return-to-office mandates
(42:30) Characteristics of elite remote-first teams
(47:52) METR study on AI and perceived productivity
(50:15) Rapid fire round
—
Referenced:
• RiverGlide: https://riverglide.com
• DORA’s software delivery performance metrics: https://dora.dev/guides/dora-metrics
• Waterfall Methodology: A Comprehensive Guide: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/project-management/waterfall-methodology
• Is Your AI assisted Coding Strategy Quietly Backfiring?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ1apxgvOa0
• 2025 DORA State of AI-assisted Software Development Report: https://cloud.google.com/resources/content/2025-dora-ai-assisted-software-development-report
• OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai
• OpenClaw (formerly Moltbot, Clawdbot) May Signal the Next AI Security Crisis: https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/blog/network-security/why-moltbot-may-signal-ai-crisis
• Performance at the Limit: Business Lessons from Formula 1 Motor Racing: https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Limit-Business-Lessons-Formula/dp/0521844002
• Measuring the Impact of Early-2025 AI on Experienced Open-Source Developer Productivity: https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.09089
• Extreme Programming: A gentle introduction: http://www.extremeprogramming.org
• Extreme Programming Explained: Embrace Change: https://www.amazon.com/Extreme-Programming-Explained-5-Oct-1999-Paperback/dp/B011T86NIY
• Machine learning expert on the 3 skills that matter most in the AI age: https://tuple.app/distributed/machine-learning-expert-on-the-3-skills-that-matter-most-in-the-AI-age
• Jason Gorman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasongorman
• The AI-Ready Software Developer – Index: https://codemanship.wordpress.com/2025/10/30/the-ai-ready-software-developer-index
• Dave Farley’s blog: https://www.davefarley.net
• Kevlin Henney’s website: https://kevlin.tel

In this episode of Distributed, Jack Hannah speaks with Scott Jones, Head of Engineering for Service Delivery at Stash, about building complex systems in a remote-first environment and why real-time collaboration matters more than ever.
Scott reflects on helping build Stash’s core banking platform in just one year, breaking down what building a bank actually means from an engineering perspective. He explains how the work was structured across teams, why individual heroics fall apart at scale, and how frequent synchronous coordination helped the team move fast without breaking things.
The conversation introduces Scott’s idea of “aggressive huddling,” a practice of using real-time communication with tools like Tuple to simulate in-office collaboration. Through concrete stories, including a critical migration issue resolved before customers noticed, Scott shows how early human coordination can prevent costly failures.
The episode also explores how AI is changing engineering work at Stash. As execution becomes faster, Scott argues that collaboration, project management, and problem framing are becoming core engineering skills, and that AI increases the need for human alignment rather than reducing it.
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Where to find Scott Jones:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-jones-bab7b713
• Website: https://www.stash.com/
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Where to find Jack Hannah:  
• LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-hannah/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tuple.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
—
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:32) What it takes to build a bank 
(05:24) Why the one-year timeline didn’t feel daunting
(08:52) Structuring the work across teams 
(11:14) “Aggressive huddling” on Tuple
(14:08) How real-time huddling saved a failing migration
(18:47) How real-time coordination works day to day
(22:42) Why postmortems can be a collaboration red flag
(25:46) How engineers at Stash are using AI today
(31:37) The skills that engineers need now 
(33:50) Why AI tools demand more collaboration
(36:07) How time is allocated in an AI-driven workflow
(38:33) The future of human-AI collaboration
(41:20) Rapid fire round
—
Referenced:
• Stash: https://www.stash.com
• Forrest Gump: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrest_Gump
• Keir Lauritzen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keir-lauritzen
• Ruby on Rails: https://rubyonrails.org
• Test Driven Development: https://martinfowler.com/bliki/TestDrivenDevelopment.html
• Uncle Bob Martin on X: https://x.com/unclebobmartin
• Justin Martin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mythinking
• Grok: https://grok.com
• Broken Money: Why Our Financial System is Failing Us and How We Can Make it Better: https://www.amazon.com/Broken-Money-Financial-System-Failing/dp/B0CG83QBJ6

In this episode of Distributed, host Jack Hannah sits down with Andrew Stellman, a longtime software engineer, author, and engineering leader who has written multiple widely used software engineering books published by O’Reilly.
Andrew reflects on how being forced into remote work after September 11th shaped his thinking about teamwork, what high-performing teams get right about alignment and mission, and why listening carefully is still central to building useful software. The conversation then turns to AI, where Andrew talks about why these tools work best when engineers slow down, think critically, and stay engaged with the code they are creating.
Andrew also shares five habits that help developers use AI more effectively, why learning to skim and read code matters, and why many of the challenges teams face today are not new, even if the tools are.
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Where to find Andrew Stellman:
• X: https://x.com/AndrewStellman 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewstellman 
• Linktree: https://linktr.ee/andrewstellman
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Where to find Jack Hannah:  
• LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-hannah/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tuple.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
—
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:27) Andrew’s first experience working remotely 
(03:57) Why remote work depends on shared understanding
(06:54) Why trust is so hard on teams
(08:50) What high-performing teams have in common 
(12:03) Turning user needs into buildable requirements
(15:34) How to get better at explaining problems
(16:38) Why Andrew believes AI improves software
(19:42) Why prompt engineering is really requirements engineering
(24:20) How LLMs make shared understanding cheaper
(26:49) Why skimming is a critical AI-era skill
(30:05) Five habits for getting more out of AI
(35:40) A real example of the rehash loop
(37:59) Why software’s hardest problems haven’t changed
—
Referenced:
• Jennifer Greene on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifergreene
• Applied Software Project Management: https://www.amazon.com/Applied-Software-Project-Management-Stellman/dp/0596009488
• Learning Agile: Understanding Scrum, XP, Lean, and Kanban: https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Agile-Understanding-Scrum-Kanban/dp/1449331920
• Beautiful Teams: Inspiring and Cautionary Tales from Veteran Team Leaders: https://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Teams-Inspiring-Cautionary-Veteran/dp/0596518021
• Head First C#: A Learner's Guide to Real-World Programming with C# and .NET: https://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Learners-Real-World-Programming/dp/1098141784
• On Writing: A Memoir Of The Craft: https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Memoir-Craft-Stephen-King/dp/1982159375
• Save The Cat! The Last Book on Screenwriting You'll Ever Need: https://www.amazon.com/Save-Last-Book-Screenwriting-Youll/dp/1932907009
• Why Projects Fail: https://www.stellman-greene.com/Why_Projects_Fail.pdf
• Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropic-co-founder-benjamin-mann
• Beyond Vibe Coding: From Coder to AI-Era Developer: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Vibe-Coding-AI-Era-Developer/dp/B0F6S5425Y
• The Cognitive Shortcut Paradox: https://www.oreilly.com/radar/the-cognitive-shortcut-paradox 
• The Sens-AI Framework: Teaching Developers to Think with AI: https://www.oreilly.com/radar/the-sens-ai-framework/

What does craftsmanship look like in an async-first, remote company?
In this episode of Distributed, host Jack Hannah sits down with Steve Schoeffel, co-founder of Whimsical, to talk about async-first work, craftsmanship, and the tradeoffs of running a fully remote company. Steve shares how Whimsical creates momentum without constant meetings, why quality lives in the details, and how async-first work shapes both the product and the company culture.
Steve also reflects on the harder, more personal side of the work. He talks candidly about co-founder misalignment, the strain of leadership during periods of uncertainty, and what it’s been like to learn to hold work more loosely over time.
They also dig into the return-to-office push and why Steve remains convinced that remote work, done well, is worth fighting for.
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Where to find Steve Schoeffel:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steveschoeffel
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Where to find Jack Hannah:  
• LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-hannah/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tuple.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
—
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:02) An overview of Whimsical 
(02:02) The size of Whimsical’s team and how it operates across time zones
(03:08) What the Whimsical Way is and how it shows up in practice 
(04:58) Why Whimsical is async-first and what that looks like in practice
(10:49) How Whimsical maintains energy and connection in async work
(13:59) Craftsmanship as a core value at Whimsical
(18:21) How Whimsical pursues “insanely great” work
(24:14) What’s been hardest about running a remote company
(28:24) How Steve realized he and his co-founder were misaligned
(32:08) How Steve is learning to detach from work and care for himself
(36:32) Why Steve remains pro–remote work amid big tech’s return-to-office push
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Referenced:
• Whimsical: https://whimsical.com
• The Whimsical Way: https://whimsical.com/whimsical-way
• Kaspars Dancis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kasparsd 
• How async work inspires craftsmanship: https://whimsical.com/blog/how-async-work-inspires-craftsmanship
• Development cycles, process, and tooling: https://tuple.app/distributed/head-of-engineering-at-sublime-security-on-development-cycles-process-and-tooling-with-sumeet-jain
• Craftsmanship, the heart of Whimsical: https://whimsical.com/blog/craftsmanship-the-heart-of-whimsical
• Frank Slootman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frankslootman
• Shapeup: https://basecamp.com/shapeup

Why does so much software still feel broken, even after years of new tools and processes?
On this episode of Distributed, host Jack Hannah sits down with Scott Hanselman, Vice President of Developer Community at Microsoft, to explore how fear-driven development, speed-first incentives, and short-term thinking continue to shape modern software.
Scott reflects on why craftsmanship has become rare, how some teams still manage to do quality work, and how today’s engineering systems influence the outcomes we see. The conversation also examines how AI is changing the day-to-day experience of engineers, why junior developers need much more support, and what stronger apprenticeship models could look like in practice. Scott shares ideas for investing in people over the long term and building meaningful communities across distributed teams. This episode offers a clear lens on what it takes to build better software by investing in people and systems together.
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Where to find Scott Hanselman:
• X: https://x.com/shanselman 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shanselman 
• Blog: https://www.hanselman.com/blog
• Newsletter: https://hanselman.substack.com
• The Hanselminutes Podcast:  https://www.hanselminutes.com 
• Scott and Mark Learn To Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0M0zPgJ3HSf4XZvYgZPUXgSrfzBN26pf
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Where to find Jack Hannah:  
• LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-hannah/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
• Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tuple.app/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
—
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:25) Why so much software feels broken and why it persists
(03:38) The outlier companies focused on quality software
(04:30) What software craftsmanship looks like and why it’s rare
(08:18) How to reduce fear-driven development
(11:50) How AI reflects the flaws in today’s software practices
(12:46) How AI affects senior and junior engineers differently
(17:03) Rethinking the mentorship model for junior engineers
(19:11) Best practices for a structured apprenticeship program 
(21:43) Delegate, verify, and integrate: a model for managing AI and junior engineers
(22:05) Why pair programming isn’t enough on its own
(27:07) The case for long-term investment in people
(29:54) Where big tech has fallen short and created division
(32:52) The indie web and alternatives to platform-driven tech
(34:30) How to build community across distributed teams
(38:20) Rapid fire round
—
Referenced:
• Everything’s broken and nobody’s upset: https://www.hanselman.com/blog/everythings-broken-and-nobodys-upset
• Instapaper: https://www.instapaper.com
• Pocket: https://heypocket.com
• 1Password: https://1password.com
• Cabel Sasser’s website: https://cabel.com
• Visual Studio Code: https://code.visualstudio.com 
• Boeing: https://www.boeing.com
• Mark Russinovich on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markrussinovich
• Tech Promised Everything. Did it deliver? | Scott Hanselman | TEDxPortland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVG8W-0p6vg
• IntelliSense: https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editing/intellisense
• Usenet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
• POSSE: https://indieweb.org/POSSE
• DuckDuckGo: https://duckduckgo.com
• Amanda Silver on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandaksilver
• Brain, Bytes, Back, Buns - The Programmer's Priorities: https://www.hanselman.com/blog/brain-bytes-back-buns-the-programmers-priorities
• WeWork: https://www.wework.com
• Simon Willison’s blog: https://simonwillison.net