The Trailhead

• Steve Magness on Real Toughness and Why Running Shouldn’t Suck

  This week on The Trailhead, Zoë and Brendan are joined by performance scientist, coach, and author Steve Magness for a deep dive into the messy, meaningful side of mental toughness. Known for calling BS on outdated notions of grit, Steve shares insights from his latest book, Win the Inside Game, and challenges the idea that suffering is the only path to success. Instead, he makes the case for curiosity, flexibility, and joy as essential ingredients for growth, not just in running, but in life. Together, they explore how identity, external validation, and over-optimization can get in the way of real performance. Steve explains why some of the fastest runners he’s coached only started thriving once they let go of the pressure to be a runner, and how elite athletes like Sara Hall have learned to recalibrate their goals to preserve their peace of mind. He makes the case for ditching the data when it stops serving us, and why meaningful community—not metrics—is what actually makes us better. They also unpack what running has to teach us about feeling deeply, building connection, and making space for the full human experience. Whether it’s the emotional highs of crewing a friend at 2 a.m., the quiet power of a watchless workout, or the absurd relief of pushing an empty jogging stroller just to feel fast again—this conversation is a funny, honest, and refreshing reminder that running doesn’t have to be a grind. It can be recess. And maybe that’s the whole point. Up your hydration game LMNT Lemonade and get a sample pack on us! Register for Run for the Ages 10k!

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• Alex Hutchinson on Why Doing Things the Hard Way Feels So Good

  Check out the Cloud Cap Marathon here! Thanks to Running Warehouse for supporting The Trailhead. Check out their great selection of everything from shoes to sun hoodies, with free two-day shipping.  This week on The Trailhead, we're joined by one of the most thoughtful voices in endurance sports writing: Alex Hutchinson. You might know him from his Outside column, Sweat Science, or his bestselling book Endure. But today, we’re talking about his newest work—The Explorer’s Gene—and what it reveals about why we push into the unknown, whether we’re climbing literal mountains or trying the weirdest thing on a menu. In this wide-ranging and unexpectedly hilarious conversation, we dig into: The "explore vs. exploit" dilemma, and how it shows up in our running, routines, and lives Why inefficiency is essential to joy and creativity How kids (and ultrarunners) are wired for uncertainty The effort paradox: why hard things feel more meaningful What AI, IKEA furniture, and running have in common Alex also shares how becoming a parent and moving beyond his “Endurance Science Guy” brand shaped his perspective on curiosity, comfort zones, and career detours. Whether you’re stuck in a rut, planning your next big adventure, or wondering if it's time to zag instead of zig, this one’s for you.

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• How Much Running Is Too Much Running? Asking for a Friend (feat. Mario Fraioli)

  This week on The Trailhead, Zoë and Brendan put coach and writer Mario Fraioli in the hot seat with their burning trail running questions.  From “How slow is too slow?” to “When does running become hiking?” we tackle the big, the small, and the existential dilemmas runners face on (and off) the trail. Come for the laughs, stay for Mario's wisdom, and find out why running might just be a Sisyphean project we willingly signed up for. Check out Mario on the Morning Shakeout.  This episode is brought to you by Arc'teryx Footwear. The Vertex Speed is your new go-to for mountain adventures.   Obsessively designed. Athlete-tested.  Trailhead approved. Available online and in Arc'teryx stores.  Catch the Trailhead live at Meet the Minotaur Skyrace in June!

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• The Examined Run: Sabrina Little on Ethics, Excellence, and Everyday Choices

  What does it mean to live a good life? And can your running practice help you get there? In this episode of The Trailhead, Zoë Rom and Brendan Leonard sit down with Sabrina Little: ultrarunner, philosopher, ethics professor, mom of (soon to be) three, and author of The Examined Run: Why Good People Make Better Runners. Sabrina’s work sits at the fascinating intersection of character development, everyday ethics, and endurance sports. She teaches philosophy at Christopher Newport University and writes a beloved ethics column for iRunFar—and she’s here to explore how running can be a "laboratory for virtue," where our daily choices shape who we become both on and off the trail. Together, we unpack: How running teaches us about moral character (whether we know it or not) Everyday ethical choices in sport and life—beyond the big scandals Why we hedge the truth (even when no one's watching) What it means to celebrate others' success while still chasing your own The role of humor and humility in building resilience How parenting and philosophy collide  And why runners aren’t just chasing finish lines—they’re practicing becoming better people. 🏃‍♂️ This episode is brought to you by our friends at Running Warehouse! Running Warehouse makes it easy to gear up for your next big adventure with thousands of in-depth reviews, expert advice, and fast, free shipping. Whether you're chasing vert in the mountains or keeping it local on your home trails, Running Warehouse has you covered with the best brands and the biggest selection of shoes, apparel, and gear. Before you head out for your next run, stock up at Running Warehouse. Links and Resources: 🧩 The Examined Run: Why Good People Make Better Runners by Sabrina Little: Buy the book 🖋️ Sabrina’s ethics column for iRunFar Follow Sabrina on Instagram: @sabrina.little This episode of The Trailhead is hosted by Zoë Rom and Brendan Leonard. It’s part of the UltraSignup Podcast Network. If you loved this conversation, share it with your trail crew, leave us a review, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an adventure. Follow the show at @trailheadpod, or drop us a line at [email protected] — we’d love to hear your stories, guest ideas, or just say hi! And be sure to check out all the other great shows in the Ultra Podcast Network.

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• Meet The Rad New Trailhead Co-Host

  Welcome Brendan Leonard to The Trailhead! He’s the mind behind Semi-Rad, the master of stick figure cartoons, and now, he’s Zoë’s new co-host on The Trailhead. But instead of the usual "tell us about yourself" intro, we’re doing things our way. In this episode, Brendan gets interviewed by the person who knows him best—his mom. Kathy Leonard pulls no punches in this no-holds-barred sit-down, asking about everything from poop strategies to race regrets. We also chat about what drew Brendan to ultrarunning, why the middle of the pack is where the magic happens, and how humor helps us survive the weirdest parts of trail running. We’re not here to chase clout or finish lines—we’re here for the characters, the comedy, and the community that make this sport what it is. Thanks to Our Partners, Skratch Labs! Fuel your long runs the smart way—with real food ingredients backed by science.  Grab your free sample pack at skratchlabs.com with code REALFOODFUEL. 

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