First Principles

• Part 2 - Manish Sabharwal of Teamlease on creating great ancestors, India’s development journey and ‘regulatory cholesterol’

  Premium subscribers of The Ken have full access to ALL our premium audio. They are available exclusively via The Ken’s subscriber apps. If you don’t have them, just download one and log in to unlock everything. Get your premium subscription using this link.Not a Premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium on Apple Podcasts for an easy monthly price (Rs 299 in India). The channel includes ALL our premium podcasts.-Manish Sabharwal isn’t an easy man to nail down. By that, I don’t just mean it was hard to nail down a time on his calendar to meet me for the podcast, which it was. Like with most founders and guests on First Principles, the gap between when I first invite them and when they finally appear is usually measured in months, sometimes years. I had first emailed Manish for First Principles in January 2023.But I’m saying Manish is hard to nail down also because he defies - resists - categorisation. Sure, he co-founded Teamlease, one of India’s largest recruitment and human resource providers. It employs over 400,000 people, is listed on the stock exchanges, and is a great barometer of broader employment trends in India. But Manish is no longer involved with the day-to-day operations of the company, while still being the largest individual shareholder.Instead, he leads a “portfolio life”, dividing his time serving on the boards of think tanks, regulatory bodies, universities, non-profits, and even private companies like Phonepe; advising companies and the government on a host of topics like labour markets, regulation, employment, education, economic policy and reforms; being a columnist; and reading books. Oh yeah, he says he’s read a book a week for the last - wait for this - 42 years!Thus, when I sat down with Manish last Thursday, I went in prepared, or as prepared as I could be, with my research and questions. But 10 minutes into the conversation, I decided to drop the conversation narrative I had in mind and instead let the conversation go where it needed to.Yes, we do cover entrepreneurship, ambition, and finding product-market fit by letting your customers guide your evolution, but we also go much further into topics that we normally don’t. For example, India’s macroeconomic and geopolitical chances, ‘regulatory cholesterol’, higher education and the jobs crisis. All peppered with pithy aphorisms, vivid analogies, and memorable quotes every few minutes, this is something I’ve remembered Manish doing since I first met him as a journalist in the early 2010s.Welcome to First Principles.-This episode was produced by Hari Krishna, and the mixing and mastering of the episode was done by Rajiv CN.Write to us at [email protected] with your feedback, suggestions and guests you would want to see on First Principles.If you liked this episode, help us spread the word by sharing and gifting this episode with your friends and family.

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• Manish Sabharwal of Teamlease on creating great ancestors, India’s development journey and ‘regulatory cholesterol’

  Premium subscribers of The Ken have full access to ALL our premium audio. They are available exclusively via The Ken’s subscriber apps. If you don’t have them, just download one and log in to unlock everything. Get your premium subscription using this link.Not a Premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium on Apple Podcasts for an easy monthly price (Rs 299 in India). The channel includes ALL our premium podcasts.-Manish Sabharwal isn’t an easy man to nail down. By that, I don’t just mean it was hard to nail down a time on his calendar to meet me for the podcast, which it was. Like with most founders and guests on First Principles, the gap between when I first invite them and when they finally appear is usually measured in months, sometimes years. I had first emailed Manish for First Principles in January 2023.But I’m saying Manish is hard to nail down also because he defies - resists - categorisation. Sure, he co-founded Teamlease, one of India’s largest recruitment and human resource providers. It employs over 400,000 people, is listed on the stock exchanges, and is a great barometer of broader employment trends in India. But Manish is no longer involved with the day-to-day operations of the company, while still being the largest individual shareholder.Instead, he leads a “portfolio life”, dividing his time serving on the boards of think tanks, regulatory bodies, universities, non-profits, and even private companies like Phonepe; advising companies and the government on a host of topics like labour markets, regulation, employment, education, economic policy and reforms; being a columnist; and reading books. Oh yeah, he says he’s read a book a week for the last - wait for this - 42 years!Thus, when I sat down with Manish last Thursday, I went in prepared, or as prepared as I could be, with my research and questions. But 10 minutes into the conversation, I decided to drop the conversation narrative I had in mind and instead let the conversation go where it needed to.Yes, we do cover entrepreneurship, ambition, and finding product-market fit by letting your customers guide your evolution, but we also go much further into topics that we normally don’t. For example, India’s macroeconomic and geopolitical chances, ‘regulatory cholesterol’, higher education and the jobs crisis. All peppered with pithy aphorisms, vivid analogies, and memorable quotes every few minutes, this is something I’ve remembered Manish doing since I first met him as a journalist in the early 2010s.Welcome to First Principles.-This episode was produced by Hari Krishna, and the mixing and mastering of the episode was done by Rajiv CN.Write to us at [email protected] with your feedback, suggestions and guests you would want to see on First Principles.If you liked this episode, help us spread the word by sharing and gifting this episode with your friends and family.

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• Part 2: Sahil Barua on why Delhivery is the antithesis of moving fast and breaking things

  Delhivery, the logistics company, started out in Delhi. It even has Delhi in its name, literally.Yet, a few weeks ago, I flew to Goa to meet its co-founder and CEO, Sahil Barua, because that’s where Delhivery’s headquarters is now.It was a day trip. I took an early morning flight. Spent a few hours at a quaint cafe where I was the only guest. Then, I walked 15 minutes through still back alleys filled with cashewnut and mango trees before ending up on a dusty highway, dodging traffic next to an under-construction flyover.By the time I got to the studio where I was meeting Sahil, my adventure quota for the day was almost over. I loved it.This was the first time I was meeting Sahil. We’d only exchanged emails with each other. He’s tall, lean and bearded. There’s a certain air of seriousness, for want of a better word, to him. A professorial sort. I steeled myself, expecting our conversation to be a bit stiff. But Sahil completely surprised me.Because he felt completely at ease diving into answers, explanations and reflections without much hesitation. It wasn’t impulsiveness, but an ease with his own thoughts and actions, which did not require polishing or editing before being shared.It was something that kept coming up time and again in my conversation with him. From joining consulting firm Bain right around the time they had set up shop in India to signing up for a triathlon without much regard for what the challenge holds, to moving Delhivery to, well, Goa.But at Delhivery, as it has become a giant in the e-commerce and logistics business, he tells one thing to his employees—do not move fast and break things.Delhivery might not be a sexy business from the outset, but the systems they have built and continue to build, as Sahil explains, position it as a company that is always innovating and iterating in a business which has largely remained the same for decades. And as Sahil repeated in different ways, the biggest effort they have taken is building the most effective network out there.Sahil tracks Delhivery's journey, how he and his co-founders built a logistics network in the image of a telecom network, and how he has grown to be a better, calmer founder over the years.I talked to Sahil Barua, co-founder and CEO of Delhivery, about that and a lot more during the course of our conversation.This is part 2 of my conversation with Sahil Barua.Welcome to First Principles.-If you’re a Premium subscriber to The Ken, you can listen to the full episode, along with all our other podcasts, exclusively on our apps now. Not a premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium channel on Apple Podcasts, which unlocks access to all our premium audio offerings at a great monthly recurring price.-This episode was produced by Hari Krishna, and the mixing and mastering of the episode was done by Rajiv CN.Write to us [email protected] with your feedback, suggestions and guests you would want to see on First Principles.If you liked this episode, help us spread the word by sharing and gifting this episode with your friends and family.

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• Sahil Barua on why Delhivery is the antithesis of moving fast and breaking things

  Delhivery, the logistics company, started out in Delhi. It even has Delhi in its name, literally.Yet, a few weeks ago, I flew to Goa to meet its co-founder and CEO, Sahil Barua, because that’s where Delhivery’s headquarters is now.It was a day trip. I took an early morning flight. Spent a few hours at a quaint cafe where I was the only guest. Then, I walked 15 minutes through still back alleys filled with cashewnut and mango trees before ending up on a dusty highway, dodging traffic next to an under-construction flyover.By the time I got to the studio where I was meeting Sahil, my adventure quota for the day was almost over. I loved it.This was the first time I was meeting Sahil. We’d only exchanged emails with each other. He’s tall, lean and bearded. There’s a certain air of seriousness, for want of a better word, to him. A professorial sort. I steeled myself, expecting our conversation to be a bit stiff. But Sahil completely surprised me.Because he felt completely at ease diving into answers, explanations and reflections without much hesitation. It wasn’t impulsiveness, but an ease with his own thoughts and actions, which did not require polishing or editing before being shared.It was something that kept coming up time and again in my conversation with him. From joining consulting firm Bain right around the time they had set up shop in India to signing up for a triathlon without much regard for what the challenge holds, to moving Delhivery to, well, Goa.But at Delhivery, as it has become a giant in the e-commerce and logistics business, he tells one thing to his employees—do not move fast and break things.Delhivery might not be a sexy business from the outset, but the systems they have built and continue to build, as Sahil explains, position it as a company that is always innovating and iterating in a business which has largely remained the same for decades. And as Sahil repeated in different ways, the biggest effort they have taken is building the most effective network out there.Sahil tracks Delhivery's journey, how he and his co-founders built a logistics network in the image of a telecom network, and how he has grown to be a better, calmer founder over the years.I talked to Sahil Barua, co-founder and CEO of Delhivery, about that and a lot more during the course of our conversation.Welcome to First Principles.-If you’re a Premium subscriber to The Ken, you can listen to the full episode, along with all our other podcasts, exclusively on our apps now. Not a premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium channel on Apple Podcasts, which unlocks access to all our premium audio offerings at a great monthly recurring price.-This episode was produced by Hari Krishna, and the mixing and mastering of the episode was done by Rajiv CN.Write to us [email protected] with your feedback, suggestions and guests you would want to see on First Principles.If you liked this episode, help us spread the word by sharing and gifting this episode with your friends and family.

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• Part 2: Vidit Aatrey on building a problem-first mindset into Meesho's culture

  Welcome to First Principles. This is the second part of my conversation with Vidit Aatrey, co-founder and CEO of Meesho, which we had released in full for Premium subscribers of The Ken last week and is also available to subscribers of The Ken Premium channel on Apple Podcasts.Vidit and I discussed a lot of things. From the way his upbringing grounded him, the way he approaches hiring at Meesho and how he approaches life now as a parent. It’s a wonderful 40 minutes where I spent some time talking to Vdit about how he continues to look beyond the horizon to find answers to the more ambiguous questions Meesho faces now.And at the end of it, he has a wonderful book recommendation for everyone. I picked up a copy myself after our conversation.I hope you had the chance to listen to the first part of our conversation, where he covered Meesho’s history of growth and pivots and how it has aligned with the changes and demands of its customers.Here’s the link to part 1 of my conversation with Vidit Aatrey - Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | YoutubeNow, let’s get on to part 2 of my conversation with Vidit Aatrey.-If you're a premium subscriber of The Ken. You can listen to the full conversation with Vidit Aatrey right now using this link.The full conversation was made available early to Premium subscribers of The Ken on our app and subscribers of The Ken Premium channel via a separate standalone subscription on Apple Podcasts.Write to us at [email protected] with your feedback, suggestions and guests you would want to see on First Principles.

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