Verse Talks

Leyla Fakhr and Jamie Gourlay sat down with with Oscar Murillo in his studio to discuss Frequencies - a project 13 years in the making that cuts to the heart of his practice 
Oscar reflects on his childhood in Colombia, moving to London at eleven, and how drawing became both a refuge and the foundation of his practice. He discusses finding his way into art, supporting his early experimentation through cleaning work, and navigating the relationship between creativity, institutions and the market.
Frequencies saw Oscar’s team place thousands of canvases on school desks around the world, and collected the drawings, marks and gestures made over time.
We explore how Frequencies connects to his paintings, how it comes alive through exhibitions, and his thoughts on recording the archive on Ethereum.
00:00 — Welcome to Oscar Murillo’s studio
01:35 — Childhood in Colombia and his family’s move to London
09:52 — Memories of home and the experience of displacement
14:04 — Drawing as a refuge
19:08 — Dyslexia, solitude and finding a creative language
33:57 — Frequencies at the heart of his practice
37:10 — Choosing art and the importance of a good teacher
42:44 — Studying at Westminster and discovering London’s art scene
51:26 — Cleaning work and sustaining an artistic practice
1:00:58 — The Royal College of Art and finding his own approach
1:05:05 — Early career, recognition and gallery relationships
1:31:09 — Navigating success and staying focused on experimentation
1:38:58 — The origins of Frequencies
1:46:10 — Bringing canvases into schools around the world
1:51:12 — Drawing, word paintings and the meaning of Frequencies
1:56:11 — Taking the archive into exhibitions
1:58:14 — Activating Frequencies at Castello di Rivoli
2:01:23 — Participation and mark-making at Tate
2:02:15 — Anonymity, participants and leaving outcomes open
2:06:35 — Why take Frequencies digital?
2:09:15 — Blockchain as a structure for distribution
2:13:39 — Shared ownership, networks and connection
2:16:01 — Art-world attitudes towards NFTs
2:19:35 — Disruptive Frequencies and the future of the archive

Frequencies: https://frequenciesproject.org/
Oscar Murillo Instagram: @lacachepli
David Zwirner website: davidzwirner.com
David Zwirner Instagram: @davidzwirner
Oscar’s artist page: Oscar Murillo at David Zwirner

In this episode of Verse Talks, Leyla Fakhr speaks with Caroline Csuri, artist, entrepreneur and daughter of pioneering computer artist Charles Csuri.
Caroline reflects on growing up around her father’s work, his beginnings as a painter and sculptor, his early experiments with computers in the 1960s, and the extraordinary community of artists, programmers and animators that surrounded him. The conversation traces Csuri’s practice across seven decades, from Hummingbird and Random War to his experiments with 3D animation, proprietary tools and generative systems. Caroline also discusses Ordo, a previously unreleased series created in 2017 and discovered among the files Csuri had personally archived on his computer, and why bringing this work onto the blockchain feels like a continuation of his thinking about digital art, provenance and preservation.  edit-caroline-csuri (1)
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:57 Meeting Caroline Csuri and carrying forward her father’s legacy
04:38 Growing up around computer graphics and early interactive technology
06:29 Caroline as an artist and understanding her father’s process
07:27 Charles Csuri: artist, scientist and multidisciplinary thinker
11:16 The New York art world, Cedar Tavern and Roy Lichtenstein
14:08 Early computer art and Hummingbird
16:19 30,000 punch cards and the making of early computer animation
18:15 Disney, Frank Thomas, Ollie Johnston and Chuck Jones
19:40 Csuri’s influence on a generation of computer animators
21:38 The 1980s and developing his own artistic tools
24:31 The Ribbon tool and drawing brushstrokes in 3D
26:53 Random War, chance and Csuri’s experience of WWII
29:22 Sine Curve Man and image transformation
30:11 Ordo: discovering the 2017 series on Csuri’s computer
33:31 Charles Csuri’s interest in blockchain and digital preservation
35:01 Renewed attention around Csuri’s work
39:18 Recognition, Christie’s and Caroline’s promise to her father
42:13 Cranston/Csuri Productions and the rise of computer animation
44:59 Returning to the studio and Csuri’s later artistic practice
47:01 How Charles Csuri wanted to be remembered
49:26 Collectors, institutions and renewed interest in his legacy
50:42 Caroline’s vision for Csuri’s work and archive
52:39 Making digital art accessible to a new generation
54:01 Closing thoughts

@Charlescsuri 
wwww.charlescsuri.com

Leyla Fakhr speaks with Brazilian artist, filmmaker and curator Kika Nicolela about community, collecting and finding new audiences for digital art.
Kika discusses her work with Objkt, the culture around Tezos, and why physical exhibitions remain important for digital artists. They also talk about Kika’s recent exhibition in Shiraz and the role art can play in communities beyond the usual European and US centres.
The conversation then turns to Kento, a new collectible art card project connecting physical cards with digital artworks. Kika explains how the project works, why they chose Kickstarter, and how it has helped them reach collectors outside Web3.
They also discuss Instagram, onboarding new audiences, the relationship between physical and digital collecting, and what comes next for Kento.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction: Leyla Fakhr and Kika Nicolela
02:46 Being an artist and curator
05:12 Community, collecting and onboarding artists
08:52 Tezos and experimentation
12:06 Curating at Objkt and Objkt One
16:47 Why physical exhibitions matter for digital art
21:46 Presenting digital art in physical spaces
24:30 Shiraz and the Iranian art scene
28:37 Introducing Kento
30:43 Connecting physical cards with digital artworks
32:01 Rarity, editions and claiming the digital work
35:01 The 40 artists in Kento’s first season
37:00 Why Kento chose Kickstarter
42:45 Building an audience and raising $160,000
44:16 Finding new collectors through Instagram
49:45 Kento’s artists and the theme of web nostalgia
53:06 What comes next for Kento
55:58 Upcoming exhibitions and projects
57:53 Closing thoughts

https://kento.art/
https://www.kikanicolela.art/

Leyla sat down with Michael Spalter, co-founder of the Anne and Michael Spalter Digital Art Collection - one of the world’s most important collections of computer and digital art. They discuss the collection’s history, the pioneers of the field, and the life and legacy of Charles Csuri.

https://spalterdigital.com/
Chapters:
00:00 – Introduction
00:46 – Michael and Anne Spalter’s journey into digital art
05:08 – Building the Spalter Digital Art Collection
09:05 – The pioneers of computer art
15:34 – The extraordinary life and work of Charles Csuri
20:40 – MoMA’s early acquisition of Hummingbird
22:55 – Discovering and collecting Csuri
31:51 – Artistic value versus market value
35:12 – Museums rediscover computer-art pioneers
39:59 – NFTs, Art Blocks and generative art
44:39 – Why Csuri remained outside the traditional art market
52:15 – Collecting as stewardship
56:17 – Csuri’s later 3D ribbon works and legacy
1:00:00 – Closing thoughts

In this episode of Verse Talks, Leyla and Jamie speak with digital art historian and researcher Noah Bolanowski about the overlooked history of digital art. From street art and the early days of Nifty Gateway to the NFT boom, blockchain, and the pioneers of computer art, Noah takes us through his journey into uncovering the people, works and stories that helped shape the medium.

00:00 — Introduction: Noah Bolanowski
01:43 — Becoming a digital art historian
03:16 — Street art, collecting & the origins of Nifty Gateway
07:22 — Keith Haring, Timothy Leary & early digital art
11:59 — Becoming a “digital Indiana Jones”
15:15 — Discovering NFTs & collecting on Nifty Gateway
18:37 — The NFT boom and sudden six-figure valuations
23:27 — Speculation, collectors & the pandemic NFT market
30:48 — The 14-year-old CryptoPunks millionaire
33:03 — What happened to the NFT market?
36:48 — What can blockchain actually do for art?
38:19 — Museums, smart contracts & exhibiting NFTs
43:49 — Rethinking how digital art is displayed
45:15 — Museums and the 70-year history of digital art
48:19 — Why blockchain changed access to digital art
50:21 — 1OF1 and the institutionalisation of digital art
51:47 — Bill Gates’ early digital art displays
55:32 — Do we actually want screens in our homes?
58:49 — Why Noah turned towards digital art history
1:02:48 — Who gets canonised in digital art history?
1:04:05 — Questioning established narratives & the importance of provenance
1:09:13 — The forgotten pioneers of computer art
1:10:43 — Charles Csuri and the unlikely computer art pioneer
1:13:40 — Making computer art in the 1960s
1:16:49 — Why digital art history still needs to be written
1:18:58 — Collecting historic computer art
1:21:15 — How early digital artworks survive and are preserved
1:23:28 — Charles Csuri, treasure hunting & Part Two
1:25:17 — Investigating the past and rediscovering lost histories
1:28:03 — Closing & Part Two

You can find Noah on X @Noahbolanowski