The Desire Question

Laurie Stone and Richard Toon—writers, artists, and married partners—join Laura Federico to explore desire as a creative force and the relationship between vulnerability and art-making. They discuss why desiring is more pleasurable than being desired, the etymology of desire as "wishing for what the stars would bring," and how writers must create space for readers without needing anything from them. The conversation moves through the dangers of self-expression versus art-making, the role of embarrassment and failure in honest writing, and how gender constricts experience. They reveal the surprising emotional dividend of their recent marriage after years together, and why looking bad on the page is essential to good art.***Laura FedericoThe Cycle BookLaurie's SubstackRichard's SubstackTheir Vows Column***03:17 — Is it better to desire or to be desired?03:35 — Richard on being a desirous person all his life04:01 — The etymology of desire: "to wish for what the stars would bring"06:41 — "Desire fulfilled is desire destroyed"08:00 — How Substack closes the loop of reciprocal desire09:40 — Teaching readers how to read you over time12:10 — The narrator can't need anything from the reader16:02 — Writing as "coming and going rather than beginning and ending"16:43 — When readers misidentify the project18:07 — "Welcome to our generation"—on constriction in younger writers19:18 — The human condition: "the little naked ape trying to make sense of it"21:19 — Art-making as more like making shoes than self-expression23:40 — "Looking bad is the best thing in the world for art"28:26 — How Laurie proposed 29:27 — The marriage dividend***Our music, Hit Her Up, is written by Nakisso Peralta and performed by Chillers.

Grammy Award-winning violinist and acclaimed author Ling Ling Huang joins host Laura Federico to explore the tangled relationship between envy, desire, and creative life. From unwanted projections as a child prodigy to discovering her bisexuality later in life, Ling Ling discusses how she moved from being passively desired to actively desiring—and why that shift changed everything.They dive into the intersection of envy and love in female friendships, betrayal as a creative catalyst, the torture and liberation of jealousy, and what happens when you finally achieve the thing you've been choking on bitterness to reach. Plus: AI as confessional, pregnancy mysteries, Luddite parenting, why friction makes music (and relationships) worth experiencing, and how showing up—even when it hurts—might be the most radical act of all.***Laura FedericoThe Cycle BookLing Ling HuangNatural BeautyImmaculate Conception***04:13 — Welcome to Ling Ling Huang04:45 — The central question: Is it better to desire or to be desired?06:12 — Traveling alone as a young violinist and inappropriate adult attention07:17 — The active versus passive nature of desire08:10 — The torture of envy as a human experience09:14 — Competitive music conservatory culture and coded critique10:24 — When her best friend cheated with her boyfriend11:45 — The continuation of love after betrayal and stepping back as an observer13:01 — Showing up even when it's painful15:25 — Writing as a "baby writer" and wanting everyone to talk about envy16:44 — "Choking on the bitterness"19:05 — Debut anxiety, goalposts, and comparing yourself to other authors21:00 — The mystery of our bodies, especially in pregnancy27:23 — Using ChatGPT as a confessional space29:12 — What happens when human relationships have more friction?***Our music, Hit Her Up, is written by Nakisso Peralta and performed by Chillers.

Aidan Ryan and Rachelle Toarmino—two award-winning writers who are also married—join Laura Federico to explore desire, ambition, and creative partnership. They discuss the ecstatic "adrenaline rush" of making art, the relationship between absence and wanting, and how they navigate power dynamics in both their work and relationship. From Rachelle's viral poem "You up?" to Aidan's examination of his aunt and uncle's art world journey, they reveal how desire evolves from abstract wanting to deep connection, why intimacy matters more than fame, and what it means to think through writing as two people building a life together.***Laura FedericoThe Cycle BookRachelle ToarminoHell YeahYou up?Aidan RyanI Am Here You Are Not I Love You***TIMESTAMPS05:14 — Is it better to desire or to be desired? 06:23 — Desire as the engine of creative work 07:51 — The relationship between absence and desire 08:53 — Desire vs. ambition in the life of an artist 10:00 — Aidan's early encounters with publishing and fame 12:32 — The discomfort of being desired and misinterpreted 13:24 — Rachelle on rejecting careerist poetry tracks 14:56 — "I want to be read because I want to be felt and understood" 16:59 — What ecstasy feels like when writing a poem 18:21 — How Aidan and Rachelle met 21:41 — "Our understanding of our desires improves as we age" 22:06 — What changes as the relationship evolves 23:46 — The intimacy of direct address in Rachelle's poetry 25:15 — Finding the out-loud voice of new poems 27:07 — The story behind "You up?" the viral Tumblr poem 29:38 — Gender roles in creative relationships 33:41 — Power dynamics beyond patriarchal stereotypes 34:52 — Where desire and power intersect***Our music, Hit Her Up, is written by Nakisso Peralta and performed by Chillers.

Laura Federico sits down with Stephanie Wambugu, author of the critically acclaimed debut novel Lonely Crowds, to explore the intimate relationship between desire and suffering in the lives of Ruth and Maria. Together, they unpack the complex dynamics of Ruth and Maria's decades-long friendship, examining how childhood shapes adult patterns of longing, the shadow Catholicism casts over pleasure in the novel, and why penance becomes inextricable from passion. Stephanie shares her perspective on trauma narratives in fiction, the problem with making suffering too tidy, and how secular life leaves us without clear pathways for moral absolution.***Laura Federico The Cycle BookStephanie Wambugu Lonely Crowds ***TIMESTAMPS04:49 — Why Stephanie believes desiring is better than being desired06:21 — Ruth's patterns of desire and reenactment in Lonely Crowds07:58 — Remembering vs. forgetting: The responsibility of memory08:31 — Pop psychology and the trauma narrative10:45 — How we narrativize traumatic events through language17:12 — The compelling unavailable person 18:52 — Ruth as Maria’s acolyte 24:10 — Secular life and the search for moral absolution25:08 — Religion as organizing principle in times of collective pain28:37 — Mental illness without metaphor32:01 — Why novels can hold unanswerable questions***Our music, Hit Her Up, is written by Nakisso Peralta and performed by Chillers.

In this episode, sex therapist Laura Federico (The Cycle Book) talks with novelist Erin Somers, author of The Ten Year Affair, about desire inside long-term relationships, the fantasies we carry, and the secret inner lives that shape us.Erin’s novel is a sharp, funny, emotionally rich portrait of two parents navigating forbidden desire across parallel timelines. This conversation unpacks both the psychology and the cultural moment behind it.***Laura FedericoThe Cycle BookErin SomersThe Ten Year Affair***TIMESTAMPS00:00 — Welcome to The Desire Question05:50 — Affairs and the Arrival Fallacy08:20 — Polyamory: Gentrified Cheating?12:45 — Who Am I When No One Needs Me?19:00 — Nothing Forbidden, Nothing Fun29:15 — Rejecting the Ballerina Farm Industrial Complex31:00 — Broccoli Mom, Patron Saint of Chaos***Our music, Hit Her Up, is written by Nakisso Peralta and performed by Chillers.