From Mao to Xi Jinping: A Conversation with Orville Schell
In a special bonus episode recorded live at the Asia Society, host Jane Perlez speaks with journalist and scholar Orville Schell about his 50 years covering Chinese leaders and their American counterparts. They attempt to answer the question: how did we get here?
Recorded live at The Asia Society on April 8, 2025
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59:29
Soulmates: Xi and Putin
China and Russia have rarely been friendly - until now. Xi and Putin have been open about their bromance, exchanging gifts, sharing lavish dinners, even celebrating a birthday together. Are the two dictators, Xi and Putin, aiming to forge a new arrangement in the world that diminishes the traditional role of the United States? Our guest, Lyle Goldstein, former professor at US Naval War College, and now teaching at Brown University, is an expert on China and Russia. He talks about the new order under President Trump, and how Russia and China, aligned with each other, approach the US in different ways.
Guest: Lyle Goldstein: Former professor at US Naval War College, now at Brown University.
Book Recommendations:
Crisis of Democratic Capitalism by Martin Wolf
China and Russia by Philip Snow.
Sound design, original score, mixing and mastering by Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network.
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40:07
AI Superpower: US or China?
China’s leader, Xi Jinping, has given China five years to dominate Artificial Intelligence. He believes China must accomplish this goal in order to become the world’s tech giant. But the United States is doing everything it can to stop China from reaching its goal. Can Washington stop US and European advanced chips from reaching China? It seems not, as the arrival of DeepSeek shows. Will AI development be throttled by the Chinese government’s heavy censorship? Can China achieve its goal?
Guest: Karen Hao, journalist and engineer. Writing appears in The Atlantic, Wall Street Journal. Author of the upcoming Empire of AI.
Book Recommendations:
AI Superpowers: China, Silicon Valley and the New World Order by Kai-Fu Lee
Superagency: What Could Possibly Go Right with Our AI Future by Reid Hoffman and Greg Beato
Sound design, original score, mixing and mastering by Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face-Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network.
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44:58
Electric Vehicles
Back in 2015 the Chinese government declared that they would become the world leader in EVs by 2025. Major car companies scoffed. Who wants an EV? Today, China automakers have surpassed Japan, Germany and the US to become the number one exporter of cars. A record number of Chinese EVs were sold globally last year. How did China become the global leader in EVs? We’ll talk with the man who literally wrote the book on the rise of China’s car industry.
Guest: Michael Dunne, Auto executive in China and the US, author American Wheels, Chinese Roads.
Books: Power Play: Tesla, Elon Musk and the Bet of the Century by Tim Higgins.
Michael Dunne's new book will publish in mid-2025.
Sound design, original score, mixing and mastering by Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer. Face Off is a proud member of the Airwave podcast network.
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44:38
Feminist Rebels
China’s leader, Mao Zedong famously said that “Women hold up half the sky.” But these days it doesn’t feel that way in China. Unfair marriage rules, difficulties getting a divorce, barriers to owning property and many more restrictions are challenging women to speak out, and act. We’ll hear about the Chinese “leftover women” who are veering from the traditional path and about the Chinese feminists of today.
Guest: Leta Hong Fincher, author, Left Over Women.
Recommended Books:
Left Over Women: The Resurgence of Gender Inequality in China by Leta Hong Fincher
Tiananmen Square by Lai Wen
Sound design, original score, mixing and mastering by Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer.
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FACE-OFF: US vs CHINA is an inside look at the turbulent relationship between the world's two superpowers, the two men in charge, and the vital issues that affect us all.
FACE-OFF is hosted by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Jane Perlez, former New York Times Beijing bureau chief and current fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center. In each episode Professor Rana Mitter, recently of the University of Oxford and now professor of modern China at the Harvard Kennedy School, chats with Jane on what’s at stake.
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