The Vergecast

Elon Musk's case against OpenAI is heading to trial. Musk is almost certainly going to lose, but he might still get everything he wants from the fight. The Verge's Liz Lopatto explains how this spat made it this far, and where it's going next. After that, The Verge's Sean Hollister tells us about the latest products from Framework, including the company's coolest laptop yet — and a keyboard for couch potatoes. Finally, Sean helps David answer a question from the Vergecast Hotline (call 866-VERGE11 or email [email protected]!) about the Surface Go and other small PCs, which might be due for a comeback.

Further reading:

Musk vs. Altman is here, and it’s going to get messy 

Mark Zuckerberg lies about content moderation to Joe Rogan’s face 

A look at the evidence of Elon Musk’s lawsuit against Open AI 

Framework announces Laptop 13 Pro, ‘the MacBook Pro for Linux users’ 

Framework is building a better couch keyboard because everyone hates the Logitech one 

Framework’s first OCuLink eGPUs hack its laptop into a desktop PC 

Microsoft Surface Go review: a little goes a long way

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 Rabbit R1 Returns

00:05:00 Musk vs OpenAI

00:07:00 What the Lawsuit Claims

00:11:00 Musk Motives and Remedies

00:16:00 Discovery Dirt and Strays

00:22:00 Altman Reputation Stakes

00:28:00 Risks for Musk and IPO

00:37:00 Framework Laptop Pro

00:41:00 Battery Life and Specs

00:43:00 Display Specs Upgrade

00:44:00 Battery And Memory Gains

00:45:00 Modular Upgrades Promise

00:50:00 Transparency And Community

00:53:00 Who This Laptop Is For

00:54:00 Linux First Developer Pitch

00:56:00 Pricing And Value

01:01:00 Couch Keyboard Upgrade

01:13:00 Vergecast Hotline Tiny Laptops

01:16:00 Arm Chip Revolution Explained

01:22:00 Wrap Up
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Now that we've had a few days to digest the Apple CEO succession news, Nilay and David get some help from Daring Fireball's John Gruber to discuss Tim Cook's legacy, the potential for change under John Ternus, and whether the Touch Bar actually could have been great. Then, Nilay and David react to some breaking news: Microsoft is going back to the Xbox. And everything is an Xbox now. Finally, in the lightning round, we have a round of Brendan Carr is a Dummy, a very 2026 new microphone, a BMW we can't figure out, and Meta's new AI training tool: its employees.

We’re also on video! Check us out on YouTube.

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters and our ad-free podcast feed.

We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

Further reading:


Behold the cursed 2027 BMW 7 Series interior (via Car and Driver)


Tim Cook’s departure is the start of a new era at Apple 


Read Tim Cook’s letter to the Apple world as he departs as CEO 


Wearable health tech might be Tim Cook’s greatest legacy  


Who is Apple’s new CEO John Ternus? 


Tim Cook: “I am healthy. My energy is high, and I plan to be in this new role for a long time.”


Xbox Game Pass Ultimate gets a price cut but loses new Call of Duty games 


Microsoft says the ‘idea’ of an Xbox mobile store ‘is not dead’ 


Call of Duty never made much sense for Xbox Game Pass 


We found Microsoft’s amicus brief about the Xbox mobile game store.


Variety: Trump’s FCC Wants Input on Whether ‘Transgender and Gender Nonbinary’ TV Programming Is ‘Appropriate’ for Children


Anthropic’s most dangerous AI model just fell into the wrong hands


Insta360 is putting screens on its next wireless mics to show logos or images


Now Meta will track what employees do on their computers to train its AI agents

--EPISODE RUNDOWN--

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:01:00 Tim Cook to step down as Apple CEO

00:50:00 Xbox rebrand

01:06:00 Brendan Carr is a Dummy

01:08:00 FCC targets "transgender and gender nonbinary" kids' TV

01:13:00 Mythos

01:21:00 BMW 7-Series' confusing interior

01:27:00 Insta360 mic with screen

01:30:00 Meta tracks employees
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We get a lot of questions about how we make The Vergecast. And why we make The Vergecast. And how we make money, and journalism, and everything. So every once in a while, we try to answer those questions! In this episode, David and Nilay are joined by The Verge's publisher, Helen Havlak, to talk about video podcasts, ads, subscriptions, Nilay's jackets, and much more.

Curious about those video podcasts we discussed? Check us out on YouTube.

Jealous of those Verge subscriptions we discussed? Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters and our ad-free podcast feed.

Have more questions for us? We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

--EPISODE RUNDOWN--

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 David's late night stroll

00:02:00 Today's Vergecast is about The Vergecast

00:03:00 New verge.com website just dropped

00:09:00 Following feature insights

00:13:00 Open Social Web plans

00:25:00 Verge audience demographics

00:31:00 Monetization

00:48:00 Audio vs. video podcasts

00:54:00 Supporting The Verge

01:00:00 Old Verge video style

01:07:00 Verge alumni

01:12:00 Why is it called Brendan Carr is a Dummy?

01:14:00 Nilay's jackets

01:21:00 How has gadget blogging changed?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the first time in 15 years, Apple is getting a new CEO. Tim Cook is stepping down, and John Ternus is taking the biggest job at one of the biggest companies in the world. News this big can only mean one thing: emergency Vergecast! Nilay and David broke down the news, their immediate reactions, and what they think might be in store for Apple going forward.

To watch our livestreams as they stream live, check us out on YouTube. Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The AI vibes continue to find all-time lows. David and Nilay open the show by talking through the absurd Allbirds pivot to AI, the attacks on Sam Altman, and the increasing divide between what AI companies say is inevitable and what people actually want. Then, the Hype Desk crew talks Coachella and RAMageddon, before David and Nilay catch up on the Live Nation-Ticketmaster monopoly suit and the increasing price of everything. In the lightning round, it's time for Brendan Carr is a dummy, satellite internet, brain-computer interfaces, and the Trump Phone.

Further reading:

Allbirds announced a switch from shoes to AI and its stock jumped 600 percent 

The Allbirds pivot to… meme stock? 

The attacks on Sam Altman are a warning for the AI world 

Sam Altman reportedly targeted in second attack 

Altman attack suspect proposed “Luigi’ing some tech CEOs.” 

Stanford’s AI study

NYT: Half of Gen Z Uses AI, but Their Feelings Are Souring, Study Shows

Reese Witherspoon on Threads on AI

Ticketmaster is an illegal monopoly, jury finds 


A jury is about to decide the fate of Ticketmaster 

Microsoft counters the MacBook Neo with freebies for students

YouTube Premium is getting pricier 

RAMageddon has come for Microsoft’s Surface Pro and Surface Laptop 

Meta blames RAM shortage for $100 Quest 3 price hike

FCC’s Brendan Carr again blasts deals between NFL and streaming services

The FCC just saved Netgear from its router ban for no obvious reason 

Netgear and the FCC have not responded to our emails. 

Did Neuralink make the wrong bet?

Apple and Amazon are teaming up to challenge Starlink’s smartphone ambitions 

Point, Musk. 

Amazon’s Starlink competitor now has an airplane antenna. 

Amazon’s Starlink competitor Leo gets a new date 

The new Trump Phone design is here 

Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11.

--EPISODE RUNDOWN--

(Timestamps are approximate.)

00:00:00 Allbirds Goes AI

00:06:00 From Shoes to Tech Hype

00:09:00 Altman Attacks and Backlash

00:13:00 Why AI Feels Threatening

00:18:00 Gen Z Polls and Trust Gap

00:29:00 Reese Witherspoon AI Pushback

00:35:00 Hype Desk Returns

00:36:00 RAM Apocalypse and Wikifeet

00:39:00 Coachella Livestream Era

00:43:00 Ticketmaster Monopoly Verdict

00:47:00 MacBook Neo Spurs Microsoft

00:49:00 OpenAI Clouds and Copilot Backlash

00:51:00 Windows vs Mac Value Shift

00:54:00 The Pricing Apocalypse Hits

00:55:00 Why YouTube Premium Costs More

01:02:00 Lightning Round

01:03:00 Brendan Carr is a Dummy

01:07:00 NFL Antitrust Exemption Fight

01:15:00 Amazon Buys Globalstar

01:22:00 FCC Router Ban Chaos

01:27:00 Trump Phone Gets Realer

01:31:00 Neuralink Bet

01:32:00 Wrap Up
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices