Cider Chat

In This Episode, We Cover
Why Sorbus domestica is often nicknamed "the chocolate pear" (and why that name actually helps people get it)
What bletting means, and why sorbs can be delicious before they turn fully brown (depending on the fruit)
The "custard stage" vs. fully bletted "medlar-like" stage (and how this relates to cider pressing windows)
Ben's sorb travel finds across: Croatia (including fruit for sale at the market + trees growing in yards)
Moravia (Czech Republic) — including the Sorbus museum and harvest festival
France (sorb hunting with Arnold and tasting cormé/cormé-style ferments)
Somerset, UK (a surprise roadside discovery!)

Growth habits that can make Sorbus domestica look like an oak
Why sorbs may matter in a changing climate: deep root systems
drought resistance
long lifespan
later bloom time (less frost risk)

Seed-grown vs grafted sorbs — and why Ben prefers genetic diversity (for now)
The surprising reality: sorbs have already been distributed widely in the U.S. through seedlings
What's being made with sorbs in Europe: brandy
co-ferments with grapes
wine experiments

Time Stamps
00:00 Introduction to Sorbus Domestica
00:18 Meet the Podcast Host: Ria Windcaller
00:52 Exploring Sorbus Domestica: History and Uses
01:25 Cider Chat Episodes Featuring Sorbus Domestica
02:39 Sorbus Domestica in France and the US
04:05 Cider News and Upcoming Events
07:53 Interview with Ben Kunesh: Chocolate Pears
08:33 The Unique Characteristics of Sorbus Domestica
17:25 Sorbus Domestica Around the World
21:03 The Versatility and Adaptability of Sorbus Domestica
24:20 The Future of Sorbus Domestica in Orchards
25:49 Sorbus Domestica: A Historical Perspective
27:34 Ben's Travels and Discoveries
34:25 Exploring Sorbus Domestica Variations
35:30 Propagation Techniques and Genetic Diversity
37:29 Historical Context and Distribution
39:50 Nursery and Distribution Efforts
41:09 European Adventures and Discoveries
45:30 Tasting Sorbus Domestica Products
54:23 Future Prospects and Cultivation Tips
01:00:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
🎧 Listen to Episode 487 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.
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Recorded live at CiderCon, this episode brings listeners into a rare, in-depth conversation about Chile's living cider tradition—one shaped by more than 450 years of apple fermentation, deep regional biodiversity, and community-based agriculture.
Moderated by Eli Shanks, this panel features cider makers, cooperative leaders, and academics from southern Chile who explore how apples arrived, adapted, and endured across Araucanía, Los Ríos, and the Chiloé archipelago. Rather than a "new" cider movement, Chile offers something far rarer: a cider culture that never disappeared.
At the heart of the discussion is Chicha—the traditional name for fermented apple beverages in Chile—and the cultural weight that language carries. Panelists unpack how Chicha and cider share the same roots, why heritage orchards matter, and what's at stake as aging farmers, development pressure, and climate change threaten seed-grown apple diversity.
Listeners will also hear about:
Heritage apple orchards over 100 years old, many grown from seed

The role of women as primary stewards of orchards and biodiversity

Native fermentation vessels made from Raulí and other Chilean woods

Cooperative cider making on the island of Chiloé

The challenges of valuing cider beyond "cheap, rural" perceptions

The future of Chilean cider on the global stage, including education, competitions, and potential export

This episode offers an essential perspective for anyone interested in cider as culture—not trend—and in how place, people, and history shape what ends up in the glass.
Panelists & Contributors
Eli Shanks – Co-founder, Punta de Fierro Fine Cider; Head Cider Maker, Western Cider

Gicella – President, Cooperative Chilwe (Chiloé)

René Galindo – Third-generation cider maker, Araucanía

Carlos Flores – Co-founder, Punta de Fierro Fine Cider; Orchardist, Valdivia

Fabián Lara – Cider & beer consultant; INDAP (Chilean Ministry of Agriculture)

José Antonio Aldea – Professor and fermentation educator

Key Themes
Chilean cider and Chicha traditions

Heritage apple orchards and seed-grown ecotypes

Women's roles in orchard preservation

Cooperative models and island agriculture

Native materials and spontaneous fermentation

Preserving cider culture in a changing landscape

Timestamps
⏱️ Detailed timestamps are listed above to help you jump to specific topics, speakers, and cider discussions.
00:00 Introduction to Chicha and Cider
00:26 News Out and About  Ciderville 
00:43 Episode Overview: Chilean Cider Panel
03:30 Upcoming Events and Announcements
07:42 Introduction to the Chilean Panel
10:44 Chilean Cider Regions and History
16:11 Traditional Cider Making in Chile
18:11 Modern Chilean Cider and Future Prospects
20:16 Cider Tasting and Panel Discussion
29:32 Consumer Perception of Cider in Chile
30:07 Challenges and Efforts in Differentiation
30:34 Traditional and New World Ciders
31:13 Exciting Apple Varieties and Characteristics
32:19 Naming and Regional Varieties
35:40 Incorporating Local Fruits into Cider
38:09 Historical Context and Apple Lineages
41:47 Fire Blight and Disease Resistance
42:57 Modern vs. Traditional Cider Making
44:15 Collaborations with Winemakers
47:12 Preserving Heritage Apple Orchards
52:10 Forming a Cooperative in Chiloé
54:53 Market Development and Sales Strategies
57:03 Generational Gaps and Preservation Efforts
59:08 Future Goals and International Connections
Support Cider Chat®
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Carlos Flores is an architect, landscape designer, and co-founder of Punta de Fierro Fine Cider. At the 2025 CiderCon in Chicago he presented Carlos presented "Developing An Experimental Edible Forest in a Heritage Apple Orchard." - this episode features his full presentaiton and you will also find his audio synced with all the power point slides at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel.
Find full shownotes to this episode at https://ciderchat.com/podcast/485-chile-edible-forest-cider/
00:00 Intro to Cider Chat - news
00:49 Carlos Flores and the Edible Forest
01:43 The Rich History of Chilean Cider
04:03 Upcoming Cider Events and Tours
08:41 Carlos Flores' Journey and Vision
18:40 Creating the Edible Forest
30:59 Bees and Flowers
31:08 Meteorological Station and Climate Change
32:24 Community Involvement and Workshops
33:37 Greenhouse and New Trees
34:12 Summer School and Neighbor's Orchard
36:17 Building a Cider House
37:47 Biofilter and Water Management
39:32 Community Impact and Economic Development
41:34 Pruning and Tree Management
43:14 Future Plans and Experiments
50:22 Funding and Government Grants
55:30 Final Thoughts and Conclusion

Contact info for Carlos of Punta de Fierro Cider

Website: https://puntadefierro.cl
Listen to Episode 421: Explore the Rich History of Chilean Cider w/Punta de Fierro

Mentions in this Cider Chat

393: How to Wassail & Drink Hail
Totally Cider Tours
CiderCon2026
Support Cider Chat via our Patreon Page!

Meet Patrick McCauley, a Michigan-based cider maker and researcher, who is questioning some of the most common myths about American cider history. What Patrick uncovers is a far more regional, farm-based, and resilient cider story than the usual "cider died because of Prohibition" narrative.
 
00:00 Introduction to Cider and Prohibtion
00:23 Meet the Host and Guest
01:56 Listener Support and Community
04:51 Cider Salon Hungary, Uk & French Cider Tour
08:03 Featured Conversation with Patrick McCauley
10:25 Cider Production and Historical Insights
14:48 Regional Cider Production in the US
30:36 Impact of Prohibition and Industrialization
37:30 Challenges in Cider Production
38:33 Cider Culture and Consumer Perception
39:22 Historical Context and Regional Differences
42:08 Modern Cider Making Techniques
45:14 The Future of Cider
48:05 Historical Research and Discoveries
59:24 Reviving Lost Cider Traditions
01:05:58 Closing Remarks and Gratitude

 
Contact info for Patrick McCauley
Listen to Patrick's Episode 302: Cider Mills of Washtenaw County (1841 to today)
Website: https://patrickmccauley.reinhartrealtors.com/
Mentions in this Cider Chat
2026 UK Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour
Patron letter - Zach
New England Cider Association - @newenglandciders
Cider Salon Hungary
Cider Chat Patreon - join today!

Enjoy this annual winter tale from Cider Chat Central! In this special holiday episode, Cider Chat invites you to step into the enchanting world of the Talking Pommes. The Talking Pommes Grand Winter Party is more than just a story - it's a celebration of all things pome, community, tradition, and the joy that comes with every glass of cider.
The cider house hums with anticipation as Ria, Perry Pear, Mr. Quince, and the Medlars prepare the night before their annual pressing. But as every year before there is always magic in the air for Ciderville. With the Talking Pommes truly anything can happen and so it does!
With snow blanketed orchards, and just the right amount of "Believe" a sleigh pulled by apples glides through the starry sky.
Raise a glass and join us on this festive adventure—because in Ciderville, the magic is always just a sip away.
Meet the Stars of the Cider House
This holiday episode of Cider Chat brings together some of Ciderville's most delightful characters:
Apple: The vibrant leader with a twinkle in their eye.
The Medlars: Sweet, quirky, and always ready with a witty remark.
Mr. Quince: The taskmaster who wants to be a comic
Perry Pear: Full of charm and flair, a natural performer.
A Wide Assortment of Pommes: From Dabinett to Kingston Black, they bring their unique personalities to the mix.
The Gift of Holiday Cider Magic
This story is for anyone who cherishes the magic of the season. As Apple says, "Every glass of cider holds a story, and this one's for you."
From Cider Chat to all of Ciderville, we hope this episode brings joy to your holiday season. Raise a glass, gather 'round, and join the Talking Pommes and Ria in Ciderville!