Cider Chat

Charles Martell has spent decades preserving some of England's most remarkable cider and perry traditions — often with a healthy dose of luck along the way.
In this episode, Charles joins Cider Chat from Gloucestershire to talk about the story behind Stinking Bishop cheese and its Wallace & Gromit fame, rare and disappearing perry pears such as Dymock Red, his historic distillery, Gloucester cattle, and a lifetime rooted in the orchards and traditions of the region.
00:00 Charles Martell on Quality of Life
00:30 Welcome to Cider Chat
02:05 Out and About in Ciderville
02:57 Filming Chronicle at New Salem's Museum Orchard
07:13 Totally Cider Tours and a France Preview
07:54 Arriving at Hunts Court
08:56 How Charles Became a Farmer
10:16 Saving Rare Perry Pears
13:54 Small Farm, Low Volume, High Value
16:22 Books and Lost Fruit Varieties
21:55 The Curious Names of Perry Pears
23:48 Perry Versus Cider
25:37 Saving Rare Gloucester Cattle
30:12 Discovering the Farm's Distilling History
32:23 A Wood-Fired Copper Still
34:52 The Historic Distilling House
35:50 A Look Around the Courtyard
37:36 Tracing the Distilling House's Origins
38:12 Building the German-Made Still
39:38 The Stories Behind the Spirits' Names
40:30 Tasting Poireau
42:17 Pommeau and Barrel Aging
44:45 May Hill and the Surrounding Landscape
46:53 Stinking Bishop and Wallace and Gromit
49:07 Single and Double Gloucester Cheese
50:58 Cheese Pairings, Rinds, and Bacteria
57:20 Hulla Baloo Blue Cheese
58:36 A Turning Point for Perry
59:57 Growing Perry Pear Trees
01:02:59 Where to Buy and How to Visit
01:04:10 Final Reflections and Farewell
🍎 Get the full story, photos, links and more in the Episode 519 show notes at CiderChat.com.
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🌐 Episode show notes: Charles Martell's Stinking Bishop, Lost Pears and Pure Luck
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"I've never been on holiday in my life. I work 365 days a year. I enjoy what I do." — Denis Gwatkin
A few friends, some old cider-making equipment, and enough cider to share before heading to the pub. That was the plan. Then a stranger stopped at the farm gate, and Denis Gwatkin's homemade perry took an unexpected journey.
In Herefordshire's Golden Valley, Cider Chat host Ria Windcaller sits down with Denis at Gwatkin Cider Mill's Red Cow restaurant. What began as making cider for friends has grown into a destination for farmhouse cider, perry, food, camping, and music festivals.
Denis shares how it all came together and takes the long view on changing tastes. Strawberry cider helps pay the bills, but what happens to traditional bittersweet orchards when the market wants something different? Through it all runs a deep attachment to the farm and a clear enjoyment of the life he has built.
In This Cider Chat
The chance encounter with CAMRA's John Hallam that brought Denis's perry to a wider audience.

How customer requests helped turn a cider shop into a destination.

Changing tastes, fruit cider, and the future of bittersweet apple orchards.

Natural fermentation, oak barrels, and stainless steel.

How bag-in-box packaging and flash pasteurization changed the business.

Selling cider face to face at agricultural shows and food festivals.

Lessons from Denis's uncle, Brian Browning, on fruit and perry making.

Finding satisfaction in a life where farming, cider, and home are intertwined.

Ciders and Perry Discussed
Kingston Black, Foxwhelp, Yarlington Mill, Norman, Stoke Red, Silly Ewe, No Bull, and Squeal Pig perry. Denis also discusses strawberry cider and recalls that his early award-winning perry was probably made from Moorcroft pears.
Out and About in Ciderville
CiderFeast Boston: November 14, 2026, at the South Boston Lithuanian Citizens' Association. Ria will be attending and recording conversations. Going too? Connect on Instagram @ciderchatciderville.

Cider gains another competition platform as the Argentina Spirits Awards adds cider alongside mead and kombucha.

A preview of the French Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour planned for late April 2027, visiting Paris, Normandy, and Brittany, including a hike at Étretat.

A potential UK Totally Cider Tour in August 2027, with dinner at Gwatkin Cider Mill on the itinerary wish list.

To join the interest list for either tour, email info@ciderchat.com.
Contact Info for Gwatkin Cider
Website: Gwatkin Cider

Restaurant and camping: Gwatkin Red Cow

Location: Moorhampton Park Farm, Abbey Dore, Herefordshire, HR2 0AL, England

Telephone: +44 (0)1981 551906

Down on the Farm Festival

Golden Valley Vintage & Country Fair

Time Stamps
00:00 Cider as a Way of Life
00:23 Introducing Denis Gwatkin
01:15 Out and About in Ciderville
03:17 Cider Community and 2027 Tours
06:32 At Gwatkin Cider Mill with Denis
07:45 Farm Roots and Cider History
10:28 An Accidental Start and Award-Winning Perry
16:12 From Cider Shop to Destination
18:07 Festivals, Camping, and Farm Life
21:47 Changing Tastes and Fruit Cider
27:21 What Changing Tastes Mean for Orchards
29:15 Staying True to Traditional Cider
30:23 Natural Fermentation
32:34 Cider-Making Equipment
34:14 The Bag-in-Box Breakthrough
36:38 Selling Cider at Shows
37:55 Lessons from a Life in Cider
41:38 Exploring the Gwatkin Cider Range
42:33 A Passion for Perry
47:04 Orchards and Sourcing Fruit
48:17 Visiting Gwatkin and Final Thoughts
50:16 "Strange Apples" Outro Song
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🌐 Episode show notes: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/518-denis-gwatkin-cider/
📰 eCiderNews: https://ciderchat.com/ecidernews 
 
Support Cider Chat
If you enjoy independent cider journalism and conversations with cider makers from around the world, consider supporting Cider Chat.
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📬 Story tips: news@ciderchat.com
📱 Instagram: @ciderchatciderville

Jeffrey House and his wife Angela founded the California Cider Company in 1993 and built ACE Cider into a nationally distributed brand before selling the company in 2021.
In this Cider Chat, Jeffrey gets into what it actually takes to build a cider business: distribution, margins, product development, persistence, scaling, knowing when to sell, and why making great cider is only part of building a valuable company.
Mentions in this Cider Chat
- Boston CiderFeast – November 14, 2026 
- French Cider Blossom Time Tour – April 24–May 1, 2027 – Find out about Totally Cider Tours: https://ciderchat.com/totally-cider-tours/
- eCiderNews – This week's story features the new Somerset cider box collaboration from Wilding Cider and Rawlins Family Cider- Wilding and Rawlins Team Up on Somerset Cider Box
Time Stamps
00:00 Cider Without Overthinking
02:13 The ACE Cider Origin Story
03:19 Out & About in Ciderville
06:05 Cider Events, Tours & News
09:31 Meet Jeffrey House
11:18 From Local Apples to National Scale
15:52 Building a Cider Company to Sell
18:58 Immigration & the Early Hustle
24:19 Finding Product Winners
30:34 The Reality of Cider Distribution
33:37 Building the Brand & Planning an Exit
37:21 Location, Costs & Business Decisions
38:32 Serendipity, Timing & Luck
39:58 The Entrepreneurial Mindset
41:58 Building a Product vs. Building a Business
42:29 The Pareto Principle & Persistence
44:41 Scaling, Cash Flow & Margins
46:38 Standing Out with Fruit Ciders
47:35 Selling ACE Cider
52:26 The Reality of Corporate Ownership
54:11 How the Cider Market Has Evolved
56:07 The Origins of ACE Fruit Ciders
58:36 Jeffrey House on Cider's Future
01:00:43 The Cider King
01:01:52 Ria's Wrap & Totally Cider Tour
01:03:17 Closing Song
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🌐 Episode show notes: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/517-what-made-ace-cider-brand-worth-40-million/
📰 eCiderNews: https://ciderchat.com/ecidernews 
Support Cider Chat
If you enjoy independent cider journalism and conversations with cider makers from around the world, consider supporting Cider Chat.
🍎 Become a Patron or Commercial Partner: https://www.patreon.com/c/ciderchat
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📬 Story tips: news@ciderchat.com
📱 Instagram: @ciderchatciderville

What does time taste like?
Join Cider Chat MC Ria on the 2026 Totally Cider Tour through Normandy, Domfrontais and Brittany, where cider, poiré, Pommeau and Calvados become a way of experiencing place, people and time.
The journey begins with a reconnaissance adventure near Étretat and continues into orchards, cellars and conversations with makers, including Jacques Perritaz of Cidrerie du Vulcain and Eric Bordelet. At Eric's table, a tasting across vintages reveals how cider, poiré and Cormé continue to transform in the bottle.
Then hear directly from the people who traveled on the tour about what surprised them, what they learned and what they'll remember from cider country in France.
Mentions in This Cider Chat
Totally Cider Tours
Bent Ladder Estate Ciders & Wine | Episode 392
Giard | 13 Generations Making Cider, FR | Episode 177
France Blossom Time Tour 2027
Interested in joining the next Totally Cider Tour to France? Email info@ciderchat.com
Timestamps
Note: Cider Chat uses dynamic ad insertion. Depending on the ads served, actual playback times may vary slightly from the timestamps below.
00:00 Lost After Dark in Normandy
01:16 Finding the Trail Back
03:02 Welcome to Cider Chat
04:07 Reconnaissance in Étretat
08:25 La Mer à Boire with Jean-François Bougeant
10:05 An Unexpected Normandy Dinner
10:50 The Totally Cider Tour Begins
12:46 Meeting Jacques Perritaz
14:06 Learning to Work with Tannins
14:52 Drought, Deep Soil and Healthy Trees
16:04 Tasting Time with Eric Bordelet
18:43 Argelette Across the Years
23:27 Cormé and Transformation in the Bottle
25:48 Ted's France Tour Reflections
33:16 The Magic of Low-ABV Cider and Poiré
33:43 Carla and Galen's Tour Reflections
34:46 What the Calvados Cellar Teaches You
37:03 Learning from the Distillers
38:53 Discovering the Range of Calvados
40:28 Joyce and Andy's Tour Reflections
42:21 Discovering Poiré and French Towns
44:41 Discovering Pommeau and Calvados
46:58 Martin on Aged Perry and Access
54:57 France Tour Wrap and Blossom Time 2027
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🌐 Episode show notes:
https://ciderchat.com/podcast/516-totally-cider-tour-france/
📰 eCiderNews:
https://ciderchat.com/ecidernews
Support Cider Chat
If you enjoy independent cider journalism and conversations with cider makers from around the world, consider supporting Cider Chat.
🍎 Become a Patron or Commercial Partner:
https://www.patreon.com/c/ciderchat
Stay Connected
📬 Story tips:
news@ciderchat.com
📱 Instagram:
@ciderchatciderville

What happens when a cider region has the apples, but not centuries of rules telling cidermakers what cider is supposed to be?
Recorded at CiderCon 2026 in Providence, Rhode Island, this World of Cider session brings together three Latvian cider makers and Asnāte Ziemele of Baltic Cider.
The Baltics have a long apple-growing heritage, but their modern cider movement is remarkably young. That gives today's makers room to experiment with local heirloom apples, wild seedlings, European cider varieties, pét-nat, still cider, wild fermentation and more as they develop their own Baltic cider identity.
In This Cider Chat
Why Baltic cider is something of a blank slate
Northern climate, orchards and local apple varieties
Wild seedlings, crab apples and European cider varieties
Pét-nat, still cider and wild fermentation
Building consumer understanding of real cider
Organic orchard practices and wildlife pressure
Cider regulations, ABV and taxes
Food pairings and where to find Baltic cider
Building a Baltic cider identity without fixed traditions
Featured Panel
Asnāte Ziemele | Baltic Cider
Jānis Matvejs | Abuls Cidery
Mārtiņš Knipšis | Pienjāņi Cidery
Māris Plūme | Mr. Plūme Cidery
 
Timestamps
00:00 Baltic Cider Blank Slate
01:16 Host Intro and Cider Tours
03:17 Why the Baltics Now
04:05 Meet the Baltic Cider Association
04:52 Origins After 1991
05:57 Climate and Growing Conditions
08:17 Orchards and Apple Types
10:22 Styles and Ingredients
11:39 Challenges and Marketing
12:07 Abuls Cidery Story
14:36 Abuls Orchard and Pét-Nat
16:30 Pienjāņi Orchard Journey
19:47 Conservative Dry Cider Approach
21:51 Mr. Plūme Philosophy
26:17 Wild Fermentation Method
28:01 Audience Q&A and Sweet Cider
28:45 Real Cider Education
29:59 Selling Sweet and Natural Cider
30:16 Restaurants Build Awareness
31:09 Organic Orchard Practices
33:03 Wild Apples and Bitters
33:46 ABV Limits and Taxes
35:37 Building a Baltic Cider Identity
36:49 Apples in Latvian Life
38:54 Food Pairings with Cider
40:01 Where to Drink Baltic Cider
41:17 Market Niches and Bottles
43:11 Baltic Cider Association Communication
44:28 Regulations and Labeling
47:20 Fences and Wildlife Pressure
47:57 Grafting and Tree Sourcing
48:58 Closing Thanks and Signoff

Listen & Subscribe
🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cider-chat/id1054230417
🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/25z9PBrbF5ERsv8X0SDWIV
▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CiderChat
Learn More
Cider Chat: https://ciderchat.com/
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