Cider Chat

An editorial on leadership, scarcity, and why cider no longer needs to borrow authority from beer or wine.

In Let Cider Lead, host Ria Windcaller steps back from interviews to offer a clear-eyed reflection on the state of the cider industry, drawing on more than three decades in cider and nearly eleven years documenting the modern cider movement through Cider Chat.
00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
01:02 Upcoming Cider Events
03:10 Totally Cider Tours
06:37 Cider Chat Schedule Update
08:00 Reflections on Cider Industry Leadership
10:53 Cider Industry Norms and Challenges
18:44 Call to Action: Let Cider Lead
19:50 Conclusion and Sign Off
20:25 Outro Song: Strange Apples
 
Find the full show notes for this episode at CiderChat.com
Episode 490: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/490-let-cider-lead/
Listen to Episode 490 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.
Prefer to watch?
Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.
💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat.
Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

Natural cider is often misunderstood as funky, volatile, or flawed. Recorded live at CiderCon 2025, this seminar reframes natural cider as a philosophy of low intervention, balance, and intentional care, not a free pass for faults.
Moderator Haritz is joined by Richard of Brooklyn Cider House and Jasper Smith of Son of Man (Oregon) to explore how Basque cider traditions influence modern natural cider production in the U.S. The panel dives into fermentation choices, malolactic fermentation, volatile acidity, sensory evaluation, and why great natural cider is defined by quality, not dogma.
This conversation also examines how natural cider is judged in Spain, what tasting panels consider true faults, and why these ciders are designed first and foremost to be enjoyed with food.
Ciders featured: Zapiain (Basque Country), Son of Man (Oregon), and Solstice (Brooklyn Cider House)
Episode 489 Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to Basque Cider
00:25 Meet the Host: Ria Windcaller
00:42 The Magic of Sidra Natural
01:41 Exploring Natural Cider Production
02:32 Cider FOMO and CiderCon
03:34 Cider Chat Milestones and YouTube Channel
05:21 Thanking the Cider Chat Patrons
08:44 Featured Presentation: Natural Cider Panel
09:23 Defining Natural Cider
11:32 Production Techniques and Philosophies
27:05 Harvest Strategies and Apple Varieties
36:21 Exploring the Price Range of Ciders
37:01 The Science Behind Well-Integrated Volatile Acidity
38:31 The Role of Malolactic Fermentation in Cider
39:55 Tasting Panels and Quality Control in Basque Cider
42:44 Cider Pairing with Food: A Gastronomic Experience
44:31 The Cultural Significance of Cider in Spain
51:31 The Importance of Apple Varieties in Cider Making
55:43 Challenges and Rewards of Natural Cider Production
01:01:48 Final Thoughts and Future of Cider
01:06:55 Conclusion and Farewell
Find the full show notes for this episode at CiderChat.com Episode 489: https://ciderchat.com/podcast/489-natural-cider-production/
Listen to Episode 489 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.
Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.
💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat. Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more conversations like this one.

A pending lawsuit spearheaded by Ron Extract of Garden Path Fermentation could change how cider makers label harvest year and "vintage" on cider over 7% ABV. Ron explains why the current TTB rules block truthful harvest-year labeling, how this impacts both producers and consumers, and what success would look like for the cider community.
00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:43 Cider Labeling Controversy
02:46 News and Events in the Cider World
04:56 Upcoming Cider Tours
09:16 Featured Presentation: Ron Extract on Cider Labeling Lawsuit
42:21 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
 
Find the full show notes to this episode at CiderChat.com Episode 488 https://ciderchat.com/podcast/488-vintage-cider-label-lawsuit/
Listen to Episode 488 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.
📺 Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.
💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat
Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more interviews and deep-dive conversations like this one.

In This Episode, We Cover
Why Sorbus domestica is often nicknamed "the chocolate pear" (and why that name actually helps people get it)
What bletting means, and why sorbs can be delicious before they turn fully brown (depending on the fruit)
The "custard stage" vs. fully bletted "medlar-like" stage (and how this relates to cider pressing windows)
Ben's sorb travel finds across: Croatia (including fruit for sale at the market + trees growing in yards)
Moravia (Czech Republic) — including the Sorbus museum and harvest festival
France (sorb hunting with Arnold and tasting cormé/cormé-style ferments)
Somerset, UK (a surprise roadside discovery!)

Growth habits that can make Sorbus domestica look like an oak
Why sorbs may matter in a changing climate: deep root systems
drought resistance
long lifespan
later bloom time (less frost risk)

Seed-grown vs grafted sorbs — and why Ben prefers genetic diversity (for now)
The surprising reality: sorbs have already been distributed widely in the U.S. through seedlings
What's being made with sorbs in Europe: brandy
co-ferments with grapes
wine experiments

Time Stamps
00:00 Introduction to Sorbus Domestica
00:18 Meet the Podcast Host: Ria Windcaller
00:52 Exploring Sorbus Domestica: History and Uses
01:25 Cider Chat Episodes Featuring Sorbus Domestica
02:39 Sorbus Domestica in France and the US
04:05 Cider News and Upcoming Events
07:53 Interview with Ben Kunesh: Chocolate Pears
08:33 The Unique Characteristics of Sorbus Domestica
17:25 Sorbus Domestica Around the World
21:03 The Versatility and Adaptability of Sorbus Domestica
24:20 The Future of Sorbus Domestica in Orchards
25:49 Sorbus Domestica: A Historical Perspective
27:34 Ben's Travels and Discoveries
34:25 Exploring Sorbus Domestica Variations
35:30 Propagation Techniques and Genetic Diversity
37:29 Historical Context and Distribution
39:50 Nursery and Distribution Efforts
41:09 European Adventures and Discoveries
45:30 Tasting Sorbus Domestica Products
54:23 Future Prospects and Cultivation Tips
01:00:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
🎧 Listen to Episode 487 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville.
📺 Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture.
💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat
Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more interviews and deep-dive conversations like this one.

Recorded live at CiderCon, this episode brings listeners into a rare, in-depth conversation about Chile's living cider tradition—one shaped by more than 450 years of apple fermentation, deep regional biodiversity, and community-based agriculture.
Moderated by Eli Shanks, this panel features cider makers, cooperative leaders, and academics from southern Chile who explore how apples arrived, adapted, and endured across Araucanía, Los Ríos, and the Chiloé archipelago. Rather than a "new" cider movement, Chile offers something far rarer: a cider culture that never disappeared.
At the heart of the discussion is Chicha—the traditional name for fermented apple beverages in Chile—and the cultural weight that language carries. Panelists unpack how Chicha and cider share the same roots, why heritage orchards matter, and what's at stake as aging farmers, development pressure, and climate change threaten seed-grown apple diversity.
Listeners will also hear about:
Heritage apple orchards over 100 years old, many grown from seed

The role of women as primary stewards of orchards and biodiversity

Native fermentation vessels made from Raulí and other Chilean woods

Cooperative cider making on the island of Chiloé

The challenges of valuing cider beyond "cheap, rural" perceptions

The future of Chilean cider on the global stage, including education, competitions, and potential export

This episode offers an essential perspective for anyone interested in cider as culture—not trend—and in how place, people, and history shape what ends up in the glass.
Panelists & Contributors
Eli Shanks – Co-founder, Punta de Fierro Fine Cider; Head Cider Maker, Western Cider

Gicella – President, Cooperative Chilwe (Chiloé)

René Galindo – Third-generation cider maker, Araucanía

Carlos Flores – Co-founder, Punta de Fierro Fine Cider; Orchardist, Valdivia

Fabián Lara – Cider & beer consultant; INDAP (Chilean Ministry of Agriculture)

José Antonio Aldea – Professor and fermentation educator

Key Themes
Chilean cider and Chicha traditions

Heritage apple orchards and seed-grown ecotypes

Women's roles in orchard preservation

Cooperative models and island agriculture

Native materials and spontaneous fermentation

Preserving cider culture in a changing landscape

Timestamps
⏱️ Detailed timestamps are listed above to help you jump to specific topics, speakers, and cider discussions.
00:00 Introduction to Chicha and Cider
00:26 News Out and About  Ciderville 
00:43 Episode Overview: Chilean Cider Panel
03:30 Upcoming Events and Announcements
07:42 Introduction to the Chilean Panel
10:44 Chilean Cider Regions and History
16:11 Traditional Cider Making in Chile
18:11 Modern Chilean Cider and Future Prospects
20:16 Cider Tasting and Panel Discussion
29:32 Consumer Perception of Cider in Chile
30:07 Challenges and Efforts in Differentiation
30:34 Traditional and New World Ciders
31:13 Exciting Apple Varieties and Characteristics
32:19 Naming and Regional Varieties
35:40 Incorporating Local Fruits into Cider
38:09 Historical Context and Apple Lineages
41:47 Fire Blight and Disease Resistance
42:57 Modern vs. Traditional Cider Making
44:15 Collaborations with Winemakers
47:12 Preserving Heritage Apple Orchards
52:10 Forming a Cooperative in Chiloé
54:53 Market Development and Sales Strategies
57:03 Generational Gaps and Preservation Efforts
59:08 Future Goals and International Connections
Support Cider Chat®
If you value independent, long-form conversations that preserve cider history and amplify global voices, consider supporting Cider Chat® on Patreon. Your support helps keep these stories accessible and the podcast on the air.